Two baby tosakins from Paul

[flaringshutter]

This is Oscar:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3403/3508924828_f543615c36.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/flaringshutter/3508924828/)


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3013/3508113567_b297e8b1d9.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/flaringshutter/3508113567/)


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http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3537/3508114043_6b5e8da703.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/flaringshutter/3508114043/)

[flaringshutter]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3386/3514347380_8d78152ac1.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/flaringshutter/3514347380/)





http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3297/3514347812_35a798bafd.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/flaringshutter/3514347812/)[/QUOTE]

[flaringshutter]

And Carrie:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3408/3508923366_03785c5be3.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/flaringshutter/3508923366/)



http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3658/3508923586_14c61b8f9f.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/flaringshutter/3508923586/)



http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3623/3508112431_c046e0bbdc.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/flaringshutter/3508112431/)

[flaringshutter]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3326/3513537581_dfa3067fd8.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/flaringshutter/3513537581/)




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I asked Paul to pick out two of the yet-to-demelanize babies, hopefully a pair, strong swimmers with promising tails. They are to be breeders. Oscar has a single anal but that's not too much of an issue for me. Otherwise I think they are pretty high quality. Comments and criticism welcome!

[Ranchumaniax]

On Oscar, Please make sure you over-feed it for period of 2 weeks.
And see if that will help with unbalance stomach.
Im really curious how could this happen. When im picking the fish for you.
Im really focus on their tails and also stomach.
Also most of my tosakin doesnt have unbalance stomach.
Please try over-feed method for period of 2 weeks and see what's happen.
please make sure you feed them with bloodworm, not pellet foods.
If you overfeed it with pellet foods, it'll have swimming problem.

Paul

[flaringshutter]

Thanks Paul! I'm currently feeding Mazuri gel food, but I'm planning on using that 50/50 with bloodworms and live Artemia.

I'm curious about it too. I think perhaps stuffing them with good food will solve the problem. Hoping for the best.

[devins23]

hi flaringshutter - I don't know much about tosakins but those two look really good quality. Their tails seem to spread to 180 degrees which is good. How are u keeping them btw? Please update us with pics as they age - it will be very interesting to see they adult colors. Wish you the best with these two.


Dean

[flaringshutter]

Thanks Dean! These two are in a round 20 gallon indoor pond for the summer, and they will be moved outside in the winter when it's not so hot here in California. I'm running one Zoo Med 501 mini canister on the pond and soon will have another hooked up in series.
They are already gaining weight and beginning to color up. I am anxious to see their adult colors too! I will certainly update as they grow.

[SeaWitch]

Those are very nice fish!!! Please excuse my ignorance, but can anyone tell me what colors adult tosakins normally come in?

[flaringshutter]

Thanks SeaWitch! Adults usually come in red, white, gold, olive, black, and some breeders are experimenting with calico right now. :) Red and white are by far the most common colors.

[SeaWitch]

Thank you for your reply. I have only seen the red and white ones and was hoping there were other colors out there. Not that there is anything wrong with red and white; it is just nice to know there are more colors to choose from.:exact:

[Ranchumaniax]

Best way to keep them is no filter, but green water with air-stone.
2-3 time feeding per day, since you want its tails to grow, not body!
Tosakin are one of the kind of goldfish that should considered as "Easy Care" goldfish.


Paul xxxxxxxxxxxx.com

[devins23]

flaringshutter - did ur tosas lose their green melamine colors yet? I wonder how long before u see their cbr and adult colors.

[flaringshutter]

Devins, they are still very olive and haven't begun to change yet. Tosas keep their green for up to a year. So I have a while to wait.... I am very anxious to see their adult colors.

[bekko]

I like the ones that stay black.

http://www.raingarden.us/tosakin%20black.JPG

-steve

[flaringshutter]

Me too, Steve! I'm secretly hoping one of my babies will stay dark, but their siblings were r/w so it's a long shot. We'll see.

I'm watching a couple of blogs from Japanese breeders trying for decent calicos. There is a particularly good one --
here (http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/ryuseisou/folder/1474424.html&ei=ffz5SZDYM5eWswPhjKTxAQ&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25E5%259C%259F%25E4%25BD%2590%2B%25E 3%2582%25AD%25E3%2583%25A3%25E3%2583%25AA%25E3%258 2%25B3%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa %3DN%26start%3D10) -- with photos of her current fish if you go back a few pages. Page 8 has a couple good shots of the batch she's working on this year.

[pearlscale_fan]

i have heard that tosakins have really low genetic diversity because they started out with like 6 fish
this causes weak immune systems if it's true
btw, they are really cute, but i do think they need more food
don't worry--if you don't feed them, they'll remind you and let you know when they're hungry

[harzan]

I have been dreaming og calico Toasa, but I will just look and admire. Thanks fopr the link! It is real eye candy!

[flaringshutter]

Update: they're starting to demelanize!


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2466/3790543801_8ce93fa1fb.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/flaringshutter/3790543801/)



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Looks like Oscar might turn out mostly white, and Carrie mostly red. Since I took these a few days ago, Carrie is really starting to go yellow-orange, with a dark back and orange stomach & fins.

[johnatoranchu]

Hi Flaringshutter ("Chat room names" are a pet hate of mine. I think everyone should sign off their posts with their proper name, it's far friendlier but that's probably me just being me!)
Because of repeated computer problems I have only recently been able to participate in discussions once again and I'm disappointed to have missed out on this thread.

Perhaps Paul I can ask you a couple of questions. Did you breed these Tosakin babies yourself or are they imports?. Do you know their lineage?

Flaringshutter don't worry about the fish with a single anal. It is normal practice when selecting Tosakin for breeding to spawn a single analled fish to one with twin anals. I assume this is because repeated spawnings between twin analled fish would increase the incidence of producing fish with divided tails. As far as I have been able to ascertain there is no distiction made on the Japanese show bench between exhibits with single or twin anals; they are considered equal.
One of the major features of the Tosakin (other than the tail of course) is the finest of its head and for this reason Japanese Tosakin enthusiasts do not feed bloodworm to them for, as Ranchu enthusiasts will tell you, it stimulates head growth which is a serious demerit in Tosakin. Pellet and even tubifex is preferred. I don't know whether the pellet used is high or low in protein but I would guess that low protein food (30/35%) is preferred. My Tosakin are fed on a high protein diet until their body length is about one and a half inches, excluding tail. Thereafter a low protein pellet is used and certainly no bloodworm.
As far as I am aware the only acceptable colours on the Japanese show bench are red, red and white (all white is "acceptable" but not liked) and "black". However "black" is not black as in Moors but simply "uncolored". Tosakin, at least Japanese Tosakin, are notoriously slow to decolour and such fish are fully acceptable in their competitions and indeed gain awards even in oya (adult classes). The Tosakin is actually classed as a "national treasure" in Japan and I would be very surprised indeed if calico versions ever become fully acceptable. Just like the calico Jikin, it might be a fad for a year or two and then die out through lack of interest and support.
Paul - I don't understand your comment that [QUOTE Tosakin are one of the kind of goldfish should considered as "Easy Care" goldfish]. Keeping Tosakin is very laborious. To grow proper tails the Japanese insist that neither filtration nor aeration should be used as there should be no water flow and water should be shallow, 3 to 6-8 inches depending on the size of the fish. Traditionally, Tosakin are kept in bowls with 100% water changes undertaken every day or indeed several times each day depending on weather conditions and feeding regime.
One of my friends has recently given up breeding Tosakin which leaves me, for the moment at least, as the only Tosakin breeder in the UK, so I look forward to reading your posts and indeed posts from any other Tosakin breeders on the Site. The only upside to my friend giving up Tosakin to concentrate exclusively on Ranchu is that he gave me his stock of 19 Tosakin which he had bred from two pairs of fish he obtained from one of the most respected Tosakin breeders in Japan. (Every cloud has a silver lining).
I have not bred from his fish yet but I have bred from my own fish which were given to me as a present by my (our) Japanese Ranchu Sensei. I have 47 fish left from two spawnings and will try to post some pictures of them later this week.
Flaringshutter - please admit to having a proper name!
John

[bigbettadan]

Thanks for the very informative post John. I have a few tosakins I have raised up from fry from last years social. I enjoy them though they do not get the attention my ranchu do. I keep them in a shallow tub with minimal air, but I do use one sponge filter since I do not give them daily water changes. I do not feed bloodworms to them either, though my pellet is high protein(Saki Hakari), so I may get some head develpment unfortuanately. Anyway, I may get more serious about them in the future..

Dan

[johnatoranchu]

Maybe something else to talk about at the Social, Dan.
John

[bekko]

John, I am pleased to hear that you guys are tolerant of single anal fins on tosakin. For whatever reason, those with the best tails have a tendency toward a single anal.

A single anal fin would be a demerit in US shows. I would agree that two anal fins is better than one anal fin when all other factors are equal. However, to date, tosakin are being benched in a catch-all category of "other varieties". This would put a tosakin with a single anal up against (for example) a pearlscale or other variety in which double anal fins are the norm. My fear is that a one-in-a-thousand tosakin would loose out to a one-in-a-dozen pearlscale because of the anal fin demerit.

It appears that the US standards also call for double anal fins in top-view ranchu. My sense is that in Japanese and European shows, the number of anal fins only becomes a consideration when all all other factors are equal. Is this, indeed, the case?

Glad you're back.

-steve

[bigbettadan]

I will mention this to the AGA standards chair. They have really come around with ranchu, I think the anal/tosakin issue would be an easy sell.........

Dan

[King_oF_Ranchu]

John,

No, i didn't bred this Tosakin. Mr. Boss did! His blood stock are coming from Koshi Island. Coming from 2 different breeder Naito Yatomi and Kinoshita.

Once i said it quite easy to keep meaning that you only have to do daily feeding and rarely water change. Best way to keep them are in Green water. You do not really need to feed them that much since you do want to slow grow their body, but growing their tails. If heavy feed Tosakin, Their body will grow fast, not the tail. The main idea on Tosakin is to grow their Tails. Less feeding with green water, basically keeper just let's them be.
For Bowling, Japanese keep them into the bowl for reason, but not necessary. In winter time, temperature are cold and they are moving very slow or even not moving. Keeping them in the bowl with air-stone, making them do more moving.

These are pictures that Mr. Boss visit one of the Tosakin farm in Koshi Island once he visit Japan for buying new bloodstock. You can see that Japanese breeder doesn't keep them in the bowl. And their fish are fantastic!

Naito Yatomi Farm,
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/xxxxxxxxxxxx/Boss%20Breeder%20fish/IMG_28701079.jpg
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/xxxxxxxxxxxx/Boss%20Breeder%20fish/IMG_28765795.jpg
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/xxxxxxxxxxxx/Boss%20Breeder%20fish/IMG_28915797.jpg
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/xxxxxxxxxxxx/Boss%20Breeder%20fish/IMG_28735794.jpg

[King_oF_Ranchu]

To me, Top view fish are not necessary need to have double anal fins in competition. It will be such a rare case to have 2 fish has every factor equal, beside anal fin.

[flaringshutter]

John,
I am not too worried about the single anal. I am thinking that if I do breed these fish it will be far in the future and I may not even breed these two to each other (that is, if I do end up with a pair) so it might not be an issue at all for breeding. As Steve mentioned, it would be considered a fault in US shows, though I don't know if I will be showing these fish.
I'm a big shubunkin fan and so I am excited to see the calico experiments with tosakin. I'm not too concerned with what colors are considered acceptable in the Japanese shows, since I wouldn't be participating in them! :) Maybe that is considered heresy but it's my feeling. I think there wouldn't be a prettier fish than a lovely calico tosa, with a nice blue background and rich flecks of red and black. I only know of the two or three people still trying to produce a good quality calico tosakin, so you could be right, it might be a passing fad. We'll see.
I feed my tosakin the same food as my singletails, and keep them similarly with a few exceptions. I rotate food, including Mazuri gel, OmegaOne pellets, homemade gel, bloodworms, brine shrimp, frozen algae cubes, even flake occasionally. I have found that nothing stimulates good color and growth in any goldfish better than a varied diet. Varying the diet so radically prevents any one type of food from causing a fault, in my opinion, such as headgrowth in tosakin.
These two live in an indoor, lightly planted pond filtered with two mini canisters. As I can't do daily water changes I do think it's important to have filtration and aeration on the tank. However, I am running a sort of RUGF, with the outflow plumbed through the bottom of the tank, coming up through the gravel so as to minimize current. It works quite well. I may be switching over to a 40 gallon hex sat directly on the floor soon, as I'm rather partial to seeing a sideview as well as the topview. That would be plumbed normally, with the outflow coming into the top of the tank, but I may run the outflow through a sponge to diffuse the current.

These two are continuing to demelanize, and Carrie is almost entirely bright gold, with just a black line across her back and through her fins.
Iris

[johnatoranchu]

Hi Paul
As you rightly say, these fish look fantastic but this is clearly a very large commercial enterprize - my information (bowls, no airstones or filtration and 100% daily water changes) comes from hobbyists who are trying to achieve perfection of the individual rather than overall good quality in numbers. Clearly this could not be done commercially. In truth, I keep mine in ponds too but I hope to transfer them to a bowl system next year.
I don't know how Tosakin are judged in Japan. If they are judged purely from above then anals wouldn't/shouldn't be seen but if they are judged the way Ranchu are judged - from above, the side and underneath - then it would be interesting to know how Japanese judges view anals. I will try to find out in October.
John

[johnatoranchu]

Hi Iris
It will be interesting to see how your fish develop under your regime, and in particular whether or not they retain their equibrium particularly as, and I'm guessing here, you are keeping your fish in deeper water than I am. The Tosakin is relatively rare in the West so I guess that there is much to be learned by keeping them under different conditions.
As far as calico Tosakin are concerned I suspect you could be disappointed if you saw them in the flesh as I was when I saw calico Jikin for the first, and only, time. Certainly much work needs to be done looking at the pics on the web site before your "ideal" is achieved. Tosakin (probably uncoloured "old" fish) would almost certainly have been crossed with calico Butterflies to introduce the calico gene initially which would also have changed the structure of the head, tail and of course there is then the "eye" problem which is very difficult to eradicate.
I'm disappointed that you might not breed from your Tosakin. Could I tempt you by suggesting that you cross them with calico Butterflies to produce, in time, your own calico Tosakin?
John

[King_oF_Ranchu]

Hi Paul
As you rightly say, these fish look fantastic but this is clearly a very large commercial enterprize - my information (bowls, no airstones or filtration and 100% daily water changes) comes from hobbyists who are trying to achieve perfection of the individual rather than overall good quality in numbers. Clearly this could not be done commercially. In truth, I keep mine in ponds too but I hope to transfer them to a bowl system next year.
I don't know how Tosakin are judged in Japan. If they are judged purely from above then anals wouldn't/shouldn't be seen but if they are judged the way Ranchu are judged - from above, the side and underneath - then it would be interesting to know how Japanese judges view anals. I will try to find out in October.
John

Hi John,

I heard about that technique with No air-stone, No filtration, and Bowl, but we have to understand why and how those make thing different on the Tosakin. Keeping them in the pond will make everything easier for keeper/fish. Many of those who breed/raise tosakin and stock high quality Tosakin, that i know of, has keep them in the rectangle ponds. To me, if they can raise them to look beautifully and competitive, why do we need to change the way to raise/groom them? Im not saying that your technique are not exist, but that technique could be suicidal to the fish at some point. And as i stated before, the ideal of bowl are just helping fish to move when the temperature are real cold and Bowl technique help with the curling on their tails. So as long as we do not keep them in too low temperature, "Bowl Technique" is not necessary.

These are those Tosakin Mr. Boss bought them from Japan, which i shown picture of the farm earlier. His Tosakin are grown up and raise in the rectangle pond, no Bowl! Please take a look at them and give me some comment on these fish. To my eyes, i believe they're competitive quality which i would love to have them in my hands sometime in the future.
http://www.bossranchu.com/ImportbyBoss3.html

Jikin, Tosakin, AzumaNishiki, HamaNishiki, TVR, and any other kind of goldfish from Japan where we often see their top-view picture are considered as Top-view fish. And i believe that single anal fin are not concern in the competition as long as they have one! I dont know how you do judging in England, but many place around the world do not really care about double anal fins. As long as the fish has single and no bent anal fin. If you do pointing system in the competition, Anal fin only worth 5 point(In Thailand).

Paul

[bekko]

To make calico tosa you can cross to a calico ryukin. Tosakin were derived from ryukin and it is not unusual to find a very tosakin-looking tail in a batch of pure ryukin fry. I once read that some tosakin breeders will occasionally out-cross to ryukin to strengthen their line. Out-crossing to someone else's line would seem to make a lot more sense - but that's what I read.

-steve

[WakinAZ]

...I may be switching over to a 40 gallon hex sat directly on the floor soon... A hex tank, being taller than it is wide, is not a good choice for goldfish of any variety, especially tosakin, which, as noted above, thrive and display best in a relatively shallow container. Maybe save it for some angelfish or (the most common destination) a garage sale. Hex tanks are more decoration than practical fishkeeping containers.

On the positive side: nice fish and great photography!

[bigbettadan]

The rubbermaid 50 gallon tub is a great tosakin tank.... And it is not too big to work nice in a house. And at around $60, much cheaper than a tank.....

Dan

[thomasn]

plus nothing furnishes room like a horse trough

[bigbettadan]

Well it is grey, and a ten inches, is shallow. Throw some nice floating plants, and place on a shelf/table at knee level, it looks fine. Then again, I am about the fish, not the tank. If I were about tanks, I would not do goldfish because they are not an aquarium fish really. You could go with a nice ceramic Asian bowl.........

Dan

[bekko]

I have seen some suitable ceramic tosakin bowls at Home Depot. Most have a hold which needs to be plugged with hydraulic cement and then sealed with a dab of silicone.

-steve

[BruceP]

I have seen some suitable ceramic tosakin bowls at Home Depot. Most have a hold which needs to be plugged with hydraulic cement and then sealed with a dab of silicone.

-steve


We just got a ceramic bowl, glazed both in and out(no hole) at Lowes. It's 20" diameter and about 9" tall. We have 5.5" of water in it. Looks very nice sitting on a printer stand as it isn't too high.

[WakinAZ]

If you're not into the tub thing, you could find a 20, 30 or 40 gallon tank on Craigslist. It's a buyer's market for used fish tanks, hehehe. A 40 breeder seems like it would make a good tosakin tank for 2 or three fish if filled up halfway.

[suphi]

Coral aquariums are typically 12-13 inches tall. That's another reasonable option that will also display fish from side-view.

[flaringshutter]

Thanks to all who suggested possible containers for me - I ended up with a rubbermaid tub, a deeper one than Dan suggested, but it worked well for a while. Now I have moved them permanently to a 30 gallon plastic trash can/tub. It is deep but also wide and as they seem to be developing well regardless of the container, this will probably be their permanent home.
Both have decolored - the female completely and the male partially. Oscar, the male, is beginning to show tubercles on his pectorals, though none on the operculum yet. They are still young though, I'm not expecting a spawn anytime soon. Tails are starting to curl and are showing the ruffled edges already.
I continue to feed them my standard goldfish diet - Omega One pellets, Mazuri, frozen bloodworms and brine shrimp. Although their abdomens are still somewhat lopsided, they have filled out a ton in depth if not girth.
I'll take some photos tomorrow if I can so you can see their progress.

[OrandaDan]

To Tosakin keepers: I just thought, the bowl system idea is clearly to maintain balance in the tail (among other reasons), what if there were filtration in the bowl, tub, tank, pond, but it was sectioned off behind a couple of tank dividers to break the current? You would get the benefits of filtration, but do you think this system would adversely affect varieties like Tosakin?
Dan

[johnatoranchu]

You Have been reading my thoughts! One of my projects this year is to construct a Tosakin canal (long, narrow waterway) which will be filtered and heavily aerated. Round rubber/plastic bowls (the type used as water reservoirs for small water features) with their bases removed will sit on the bottom of the canal with sufficient clearance to enable movement of water through the base. One or two other ideas to be incorporated but - it works on paper!
John

[flaringshutter]

Dan and John, I find that since I am keeping them warm in the patio pond - they rarely dip below 60, even on the coldest nights, and are most often around 70-75, the filtration doesn't seem to be affecting their tails. Someone (can't remember who it was, perhaps Paul?) mentioned that at warmer temperatures it isn't necessary to keep them in bowls to maintain the tails. I don't know if it's actually true but mine seem to be developing well despite their environment.

They're in a 30 in. deep, 25 in. wide bucket pond, outside on the patio. It's filtered by two 501s run in series, with normal inlet/outlets, not diffused or diverted or anything. Heated to keep the temps stable at night. I'm currently feeding OmegaOne pellets and frozen bloodworms, though that changes by the day and week depending on what's available and fresh.

Anyway, here are the most recent shots. What a difference a few months makes, yes?

Carrie has colored up nicely, and Oscar is still demelanizing. And kudos to Paul for finding me a pair - Carrie, as you can see, is all round and womanly, ahaha. And you can see the tubercles on Oscar's pectorals.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4070/4310957570_9c48dc6901.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/flaringshutter/4310957570/)


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4011/4310219529_fa690623b8.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/flaringshutter/4310219529/)


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[flaringshutter]

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[johnatoranchu]

I guess I'm one of those guys who either tries to learn from his OWN experience or from others who I KNOW are talking from their OWN experience. I tend not to listen to information passed on, albeit with the best of intentions, by third parties who are simply passing on what they have heard, possibly from other "uninvolved third parties" and so on and so on.
Ideally the Tosakin's tail not only curls but sweeps forward either side of the body forming a circle and encircling 2/3rds or more of the body length. Your fish, like the majority of my own, are developing the curl but not the "circle". There could be numerous reasons for this including of course age and the genetic make up of our fish BUT, and this is where I come from, Japanese hobbyists who obtain maximum development of tails do so by keeping their fish in bowls without filtration or aeration. Now keeping them in bowls is a very labour intensive method and whilst it is clearly the traditional method I cannot help but believe that if keeping them in ways which were less labour intensive and using aeration and filtration worked as well then the Tosakin bowls would have been thrown away years ago. So for my part, whilst I appreciate it's far from perfect, I will proceed with my Tosakin canal and bottomless bowl project to see if this "halfway house" approach makes any difference to the tails'development. One thing I do know is that there is no way I could use tosakin bowls and do 100% water changes once, twice or even three times a day.
John

[flaringshutter]

That's how I feel, John. There's no way I could keep them bowled with total water changes, only feed the best, etc. Just no way. I know they have excellent genes, and they are young yet, only a year. The only tosa I have seen that develop the full circle are three or even four years old, and they have a lot of growing to do yet so I won't rule out more fin development. I'm enjoying them in the pond outside and they're not show fish so I'm not worried about developing the full circle, just curious as to whether it will happen without bowling them. We'll see.

[OrandaDan]

John, I would certainly like to hear about your results with such a system. I think that in theory you would have to be very diligent to maintain good water quality consistantly without filtration. I would be interested to see acctual test kit ammonia readings for a no filter bowl with regular water changes, just a thought. I like your idea about the bottomless blowl. When I have produced some of my ideas, photographed them etc. I will post a fish keeping inovation thread..:coffee:

Dan

[johnatoranchu]

John, I would certainly like to hear about your results with such a system. I think that in theory you would have to be very diligent to maintain good water quality consistantly without filtration. I would be interested to see acctual test kit ammonia readings for a no filter bowl with regular water changes, just a thought. I like your idea about the bottomless blowl. When I have produced some of my ideas, photographed them etc. I will post a fish keeping inovation thread..:coffee:

Dan

Oh Dan, a mute point! I keep Goldfish, hundreds of them, not Test Kits! My super duper, all singing, all dancing electronic test kits, bought on a whim and a waste of £500, have long since been confined to the back of a cupboard somewhere. Regular 100% water changes totally eliminate the need for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, hardness and oxygen level reading kits. Throw them away and study your fish, they will tell you more than any test kit!
John

[bigbettadan]

Just to add a betta comparasion. I won my championships the old school method, 100% water changes every 48 hours, no filtration(except sponges in growout tanks). Well, over time I started to tire of daily jar changing, so I invested in a drip system with UV, wetdry, the works. What I learned is the bettas with no filtration bi daily water changes were of superiour health/finnage condition than the fish in the expensive hi tech system. Of course this help push me to the ranchu hobby where 100% weekly water changes seemed like a vacation....LOL But it also reaffirmed the old school low tech approach to fish breeding I learned in the beginning. Just roll up those sleeves and save that money. My two cents..

Dan

[suphi]

I concur with the old school keeping method (simple setup, just frequent water change and aeration). This gives me the best results so far as fish rarely get sick and seem to develop better compared to fish in tank with more sophisticated equipments.

[OrandaDan]

Well thats me told! :) Dan