trying again....

[sweetshannon]

Ok, I am trying again. I totally bleached my tank, and rinsed, added brand new foam in my filters. I also added crushed coral.
This is a 100 gallon shallow tank with three fluval 405's on it. I know, that's alot for two little bitty fish. But that is what I added. I went to Chinatown and picked up two little babies, an oranda and ryukin. Really cute.
Anyway....the first to days they were perky and very hungry and active. Now the oranda occasionally gulps air at the surface, they little ryukin does it pretty much all the time. They oranda is still eating, the other one not so much.
When I bought them I also bought a package of Biospera, refrigerated. My readings are still 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate. That is what I expected with two little babies in that BIG tank. Ph seems steady at 7.8.
I am treating with prazi and salt, as they came from a pet store that turns over ALOT of goldies.
And ideas? Anything else that needs to be done? The little ryukin seems to have a little red by his fins, too.....
any thoughts or advice will be great!

[suphi]

Are you using them to cycle the tank? Two small fish might not be enough for a tank that size (unless you use some filter materials from your other tanks). [Alternatively, that 11-inch ranchu from Paul is perfect for cycling the tank.>:)]

If you plan to add more fish to that tank in the near future then I'd QT these two fish somewhere else first, just to make sure that tank is disease free.

I always assume that fish, especially from pet stores, come with pathogens. So, personally, I'd quarantine them in a smaller tank for easy water change and smaller amount of meds that might be required. I do daily WC during QT to offload any parasite/bacteria that might be present in the water, and I don't use filter. That's just my style tho and may be overkill for some.

Here's my old personal protocol for new fish:
1. Observe during the first 2 days, no food no medications.
2. Daily WC up to 100% (I don't use filter in hospital tank).
3. Feed afterward only if the fish is active.
4. Medicate only if there is external signs of infection (except Prazi, which I use routinely now).
5. Scrape body/gills + microscope analysis (I don't do this anymore, taking shortcut since I now use prazi for every new fish--microscope's sensitivity is still not 100%, plus it's a PITA and time-consuming).
6. Move fish to main tank after a month if fish is acting healthy. (I do cheat occasionally, especially with fish from reliable vendors--my last ranchu was QT'ed for 2 wk only, but he had to go back to QT tank a week after that for probable wen infection which may have been passed on from the old fish in the main tank. This was cured after 3 days of Oxolinic acid.)

I don't put much emphasis on tank cycle (only useful during vacations). Instead, I do it Asian style with frequent WC to keep the water fresh and clean and I think that's more important to the fish. I don't think my way is the only way, and it is really about doing what is practical for you that will still yield positive results to the fish (i.e. fresh clean water is the only one thing).

[sweetshannon]

I broke my 20 qt tank, and am just keeping them in my 100 gallon since it is empty. I hate an empty tank. Do you think salt and prazi is enough to help with the gasping? I will worry about the cycle with WC later....I just want to be sure these two are healthy and recover from whatever is causing this.
I don't have a microscope....so is Prazi and salt enough?
I usually don't have so may questions, but it has been awhile since I had new, and sick, fish.
Thanks for the help.

[suphi]

Ok, I think you can just fill half (or less) of that tank with water for now if you need to medicate. I agree that cycle is the last thing you should worry about right now.

I can't really tell you if salt and prazi will be enough or not because right now we don't know what's causing gasping behavior. Fish usually don't do that unless they need more oxygenation or there's a problem with the gills (which can be caused by anything ranging from bad water chemistry at pet store to various infections).

If you're concerned then go ahead with salt and prazi since they're very safe and has wide therapeutic range before becoming toxic. One thing you do need is lots and lots of oxygen and try to keep the water clean (not that hard for just two fish). I wouldn't fill up the 100G tho, you'll be wasting your meds. Then just observe the fish for a day or two. Minimal to none on the feeding.

[Venus]

When you see a fish gulping or gasping at the surface of the tank; this is an indication that there's not enough oxygen in the water.

There could be a few reasons why your water has low oxygen levels; perhaps your pH levels are low, or perhaps not enough surface action, or maybe your tank water has supersaturated gases in it.

Supersaturated gases are found in tap water and if not eliminated will suffocate fish. Sometimes you'll see bubbles escaping from the mouth or gills. Working the water over will decrease the amount of gas in your water. If you've been performing a lot of water changes, this could be the problem.

When I perform a water change in my tank, I run the water into a bucket and then pour that water into my fresh water tub and then pour that water into the fish tank. Hold the pitcher or container high, letting the water hit the surface hard.

You mention that the tank is 100 gallons and it sounds like you have a lot of filtration, but these filtering systems are designed for tropical fish, not goldfish.

They are not designed to agitate the surface of the water and when the volume is cranked up they add to much current to the body of water making it difficult for the fish to swim.

Try a pond pump instead; pond pumps sit on the bottom of the tank where the nasties are so your friendly bugs will build much stronger being close to the food supply. Pond pumps shoot a jet of water to the surface creating a lot of action which oxygenates the water.

Increased surface action will keep your pH levels stable, prohibit formation of harmful bacteria and eliminate super saturated gases.

Although your tank is big for two little fish; the friendly bugs will grow accordingly and increase in size as your fish grow.

If you have a lid on your tank remove it, or raise the flap so the surface of the water is exposed to fresh air.

Best of luck, Venus

I hope your doing daily water changes and using water treatment that eliminates chlorine, chloramines, ammonia and nitrite.