Breeding black ranchus - any success?

[afnaveils]

Has anyone here had any success breeding quality black ranchus?

[Virginia ranchu]

I had great success spawning them, but I never got black fry. The offspring were all wild colored.

Rob

[Cincy Ranchu]

I had great success spawning them, but I never got black fry. The offspring were all wild colored.

Rob

I second that with Rob, I have spent lots of cask on Black Ranchu and they are veruy easy to spawn, but they seldom are black. People tell me it it the water chemistry; wrong pH, not enough iron, and blah blah blah.....

I am not convinced they are4 nothing but metallics form a edo cross that is adjusted to turn black. Pretty fish, can't reproduce.:badidea:

[afnaveils]

I spawned black ranchus only once and like Rob only got wild colored fish. I guess it's a waste of time trying.

[*Ci*]

By wild coloring - do you mean that sort of goldish green hue - darker on top and lighter below lateral line?

With a ranchu this color - is there any hope of it becoming darker or blacker as it ages. Does anyone have a good pic of an adult of this color?

[bekko]

I had the same experience. Mine were Chinese bloodline because I do not like the thin peduncle of the Thai bloodline. I got a lot of green offspring although many looked black when viewed from above. When they were about three inches, I held some in a brightly lit aquarium for about a week while their pond was being renovated. They turned sort of silver-grey and were very pretty in their own right. Then they changed back to dark bronze when returned to the dark pond.

Black ranchu are generally a little one the expensive side. However, they would be really expensive if everyone had the same experience we did. There is some trick which we are missing.

-steve

[harzan]

I bought a young one from Steve @ Rain Garden a year or so ago and it was greenish. The rest that I saw were green. I placed it in a black tub with a lot of sun (we have a lot of that in Hawaii. It became black and still is. I see small ones in the pet shops here that are quite nice for only $10-$12 and are dark black. I do not feed it anything special, just cheep pellets.

The way I see it, just buy them if you like them since the color is so odd to obtain on spawns.

Harris

[Virginia ranchu]

By wild colored, I mean olive/bronze. Like others have noted, these can look quite dark if kept in a black bottomed tub and in bright light, but they quickly turn to a silver grey color if moved to an indoor aquarium.

Mine were Chinese,

Rob

[afnaveils]

From new posts on another site, it seems that we may get better success with Thai black ranchus. One hobbyist called neo on that site got black ranchus out of each of his 7 spawns from real Thai black ranchus. However, the fry turn charcoal black only when they grow to 2 inches. His goal is to get the right tail angle, black not being a concern to him anymore.

[bekko]

It it were easy to improve the tail on Thai black ranchu then they would have already done it. The strain suffers from a poor tail tuck and a weak, spindly caudal peduncle. Chinese black ranchu, on the other hand, have strong backs and really nice conformation but suffer from weak black color. Most have a lot of bronze in the belly and if not properly kept can loose the black. If it were easy to correct the deficiencies in the Chinese black ranchu then someone would have already done that too.

In the west, most of the black ranchu which come available are Chinese origin. I suspect that all of use who have noted difficulty in reproducing black ranchu (above) were using Chinese bloodline.

-steve

[Cincy Ranchu]

I have tried black Ranchu from China and Tahiland numerous times and the results were always the same; easy to breed, easy to raise but they are all bronzy or green.

I wonder if a non-brine shrimp diet and a green water initial diet would remedy the situation? Then ars they grow keep them in the green soup diet so to speak?:youtellme:

[suphi]

The art of grooming black ranchu has unfortunately remained a trade secret. Apparently, there're some necessary tricks that most breeders will not tell.

[lion hero]

http://i590.photobucket.com/albums/ss344/lionhero1971/Blackranchu.jpg

[lion hero]

http://i590.photobucket.com/albums/ss344/lionhero1971/Blackranchu1.jpg


Both Pics from Mr.Wat and Mr.Tea in Thailand.

[small_ranchu]

Thanks for sharing pic with us. Instead of posting pictures, you should have tell us how to breed black ranchu. :) Thanks again.

[lion hero]

Thanks for sharing pic with us. Instead of posting pictures, you should have tell us how to breed black ranchu. :) Thanks again.

OK. I will find out the information for black ranchu breeding. What I know now is, it s quite a difficult to keep it black and also breed them.They are more sensitive than ranchu SVR .However many breeders in Thailand can do it well.

[sc569]

There are interesting observatins from JoAnne Norton's experiments on angelfish.

Constant light is necessary to produce cobra angels in combination with the right genotype.

http://theangelfishsociety.org/articles/norton/dr_norton(7).htm

Short days (4 hours) are necessary to produce leopard angelfish.

http://theangelfishsociety.org/articles/norton/dr_norton(10).htm

Given the posted experiences, it is worth raising a batch of black ranchu spawn in two batches: one under constant light and another with only 4 hours of light.

Since they spawn easily, it is worth a try. I don't raise ranchu but this is just a suggestion.

[Cincy Ranchu]

There are interesting observatins from JoAnne Norton's experiments on angelfish.

Constant light is necessary to produce cobra angels in combination with the right genotype.

http://theangelfishsociety.org/articles/norton/dr_norton(7).htm

Short days (4 hours) are necessary to produce leopard angelfish.

http://theangelfishsociety.org/articles/norton/dr_norton(10).htm

Given the posted experiences, it is worth raising a batch of black ranchu spawn in two batches: one under constant light and another with only 4 hours of light.



Since they spawn easily, it is worth a try. I don't raise ranchu but this is just a suggestion.

I tried that trick a while back and got blackish green ranchu, maybe green water and higher light intensity will do it.:yess:

[sc569]

Gary,

Did you use constant light or short day? You didn't specify.

Did all the fry turn out the same tint?

Also, how intense? The angelfish article said that 20 hours was enough but did not specify the lighting.

Streamson

[Cincy Ranchu]

Before I installed an inline timer and switched to compact flourences I went through a period of 30 months where the lights never went off, 24/7.

A few fish got almost black. Actually I was doing a blue calico experiment at the the same time. It didn't work either, but I am not sure 80watts on a125gallon tank is enough intensite=y to trust either experiment

[sc569]

Gary,

Based on your experiment, the likely solution to black ranchus is constant light. It seems like keeping them outdoors with supplemental lighting at night would be the economical solution.

The color composition of the light might matter also. Some UV may be necessary and keeping them in shallow water to allow the UV through could be necessary.

Are you or anyone interested in trying this to get black ranchus or black orandas?

Streamson

[Cincy Ranchu]

Gary,

Based on your experiment, the likely solution to black ranchus is constant light. It seems like keeping them outdoors with supplemental lighting at night would be the economical solution.

The color composition of the light might matter also. Some UV may be necessary and keeping them in shallow water to allow the UV through could be necessary.

Are you or anyone interested in trying this to get black ranchus or black orandas?

Streamson

I just got a realy nice pair of black Orandas from Steve at Rain Garden. They were chasing today, but the eggs were not quite ready. BTW I highly reccomend these fish, they are really nice. The only thing that is nicer are the Red Caps ( they are most cool) and they are line bred as compared to the turn outs you get with imports.... Shipping from Hawaii is extremely reliable BTW.:exact:

GH

[marlin08]

I just got a realy nice pair of black Orandas from Steve at Rain Garden. They were chasing today, but the eggs were not quite ready. BTW I highly reccomend these fish, they are really nice. The only thing that is nicer are the Red Caps ( they are most cool) and they are line bred as compared to the turn outs you get with imports.... Shipping from Hawaii is extremely reliable BTW.:exact:

GH

So glad to see another fan of Steve's black Oranda :yess:
I got my delivery back in March, really, really nice, indeed...

[bwleung]

Hi,

My personal thoughts about the genetics behind the ranchu and oranda frys turning black.

Please see:
http://mirrorscalegoldfish.blogspot.com/

Kind regards

Bill

[marlin08]

Hi,

My personal thoughts about the genetics behind the ranchu and oranda frys turning black.

Please see:
http://mirrorscalegoldfish.blogspot.com/

Kind regards

Bill

Wow!
Great article and
food for thought...