Blue Egg Phoenix [Archive] - Site for Goldfish Keepers

afnaveils

03-14-2009, 03:20 PM

Full moon on March 11 proved to have some effect on my gf. I've got a small spawn of about 40 eggs from my BEP. The fry are expected to hatch tomorrow. I also have about 70 Naitoh ranchu fry which hatched yesterday.

Both spawns with very small numbers of eggs! For the ranchus, the parents are still young (first year), this can be the explanation. However, for the BEP, the parents are 4 four years old, and I'm wondering if those of you with BEP, like me have small spawns. The previous spawn of this same pair two years ago gave me some more eggs but about the same number. I guess it is a sign of excessive inbreeding of this variety. What do you think?

Sabine

03-14-2009, 04:52 PM

Great news, I hope you will get some nice phoenix out of this spawn.
Maybe we can compare photos of our quite similar spawns :)

afnaveils

03-14-2009, 06:45 PM

Great news, I hope you will get some nice phoenix out of this spawn.
Maybe we can compare photos of our quite similar spawns :)

Yes Sabine. I'm waiting for the eggs to hatch tomorrow. My camera cannot do close-ups though but I'll try to do my best with the zoom.

Virginia ranchu

03-15-2009, 04:18 PM

Hey Gerard,

If this is the first spawn of the year for the BEP, you might be able to get a few more spawns out of them in the next month. I often get a small first spawn, then if I really feed heavily, I will get a couple more larger spawns on about two week intervals.

Rob

afnaveils

03-15-2009, 04:34 PM

Ok thanks! I'll try that again. The last time, I did that the second spawn never came or maybe I missed it.

harzan

03-16-2009, 06:51 AM

Who is a goos ource to obtain these from and how costly are they?

Thanks.

harzan

03-16-2009, 06:52 AM

sorry, good source to obtain?

afnaveils

03-17-2009, 03:57 AM

Your question depends on where you live, the USA or Canada. There are more breeders of this variety in the USA (maybe 20) than in Canada (maybe 2). The BEP are a very rare breed and may even be so in China and Hong Kong. Two years ago, I tried to know through a supplier in China if she was able to find and ship some BEP to Montreal. She could not find any.

Cincy Ranchu

03-17-2009, 04:13 AM

sorry, good source to obtain?

I think Russ Taylor in DC has the only available fry? What say you Va. Ranchu, Russ still have some?

afnaveils

03-21-2009, 05:09 PM

March 11, 2009 spawn gave me about BEP fry.

Today March 21, same BEP couple spawned (I hand-spawned). I may have about 500 eggs.

Rob, you were right, second spawn is better this time after beefing up.

afnaveils

03-21-2009, 05:32 PM

afnaveils

03-22-2009, 03:13 AM

I'm disppointed. My BEP male shot a lot of blanks. Only about 7 to 10 % of the 500 BEP eggs seem to be fertilised. So, if I may get about 40 to 50 fry.:cross_fingers:

Sabine

03-22-2009, 02:37 PM

How many fry did you get out of your 1rst spawn?
There may still be just the one nice pair among them that you need.

afnaveils

03-22-2009, 07:04 PM

Out of the first spawn, I got about 50 fry. The second spawn, I may get about 50 fry also.

No spike observed in the first batch.

afnaveils

03-28-2009, 02:00 AM

The second BEP spawn gave weak fry which hatched and died before free-swimming.

First batch of BEP fry still doing well!

Virginia ranchu

03-28-2009, 03:45 AM

Hey Gerard,

Sorry for your poor results with the second spawn. I wonder if so many infertile eggs affected the water quality and harmed the fry that hatched?

I don't know if Russ has any fry this year yet, but he keeps quite a few BEP. Russ's fish are really nice. I think these fish are nice in an aquarium, but they are very hard to see in a pond.

Rob

Guenther

03-28-2009, 03:57 PM

The second BEP spawn gave weak fry which hatched and died before free-swimming.

Did you use any medication?

afnaveils

03-28-2009, 07:33 PM

No medication. Methylene blue and changed water of same temperature twice before hatching. May be chlorine was not neutralised by dechlorinator.

afnaveils

04-04-2009, 05:08 PM

March 11 BEP fry are doing well and growing, about 50 to 60 fry. Culling has started. No spike but some with irregular back line. Main defect for further culling will be tail fin.

afnaveils

04-09-2009, 05:58 PM

I was looking at my March 11 BEP fry and noticed a fry with no anal fin. I thought it was an isolated case but I started to pay more attention to these fins. I finally culled 11 fry lacking anal fins which gives me a percentage of 1 out of 6 or 7 with this defect. Has anyone noted this occurence on his/her BEPs?

bekko

04-09-2009, 08:18 PM

Those sorts of percentages will often appear in varieties which do not have dorsal fins. It varies with the individual adults used, and who-know-what else.

-steve

afnaveils

11-02-2010, 02:31 AM

I put a few pix of my BEPs in my album.

http://www.goldfishkeepers.com/forum/album.php?albumid=2

small_ranchu

11-02-2010, 02:58 AM

I put a few pix of my BEPs in my album.

http://www.goldfishkeepers.com/forum/album.php?albumid=2

Thanks for sharing. Really love them :worship:

VeiltailGuy

11-02-2010, 03:15 AM

Nice pix...be nice when mine get that big...I have bout 25-30 young ones

Sabine

11-02-2010, 03:20 AM

They are beautiful, Gerard! How many do you have left?

afnaveils

11-02-2010, 05:29 PM

Thank you Sabine and Fred!

Well, when I came back from 2009 BS, I lost 4 of my adult BEPs because I missed 1 or 2 water changes before leaving for Cincinnati. I did not want to alarm anyone as at that particular BS, we realized that the number of BEPs were declining, lack of breeders and/or BEPs and also, Russ Taylor had a bad BEP breeding season. However, I was glad I have brought some one-inch BEPs to Harris who took them to Hawaii. He succeeded in breeding them in 2010 and sent some to Allen Fertuna. Billy Tai succeeded in breeding his too.

Now, Rick (Veiltailguy) got some fry at 2010 BS (I think from Matt Lyons spawns) and I'm in some way relieved.

Now, I have only 7 BEPs of medium to adult size and 6 fry from a missed spawn a few weeks ago.

Ichthius

11-02-2010, 08:02 PM

I have a dozen growing up from Matt's spawn and Allen has some from that spawn as well.

Sabine

11-02-2010, 10:25 PM

Should you ever run out of room - I'd love to raise some and try to breed them.
Hope you get more fry next spring!

afnaveils

11-03-2010, 03:01 AM

I hope so too Sabine! How are your Tsugaru Nishikis?

Sabine

11-03-2010, 03:52 AM

I only kept one of the offspring - he turned out to be a ranchu (short-tailed), still dark coloured after almost 2 years. Hoped to cross him with my sakura female ranchu but nothing happened yet.
He also only grows slowly, like his siblings.
Not the result I was hoping for.

Ranchumaniax

11-03-2010, 04:20 AM

I also got some from BS too. I believe they are from Matt.
Thank you Matt & Gary for these BEP....
If nothing go wrong, I'll breed them.

Here is an update.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr5_YLKV_yY

lr5_YLKV_yY

afnaveils

11-18-2010, 02:31 AM

But if you don't do anything with these BEPs, I can help you get rid of them.>:)

Cincy Ranchu

11-21-2010, 03:35 AM

Chris is Indi has some xtras I believe

afnaveils

11-21-2010, 03:10 PM

Thanks Gary! I don't really need them. Just kidding Paul. He was making some space lately.

VeiltailGuy

11-21-2010, 03:44 PM

Mine are doing well to! :yess:

harzan

12-06-2010, 10:20 PM

Wow!!! Those tails are FANTASTIC!!!!

Nice and fat too!

afertuna

12-07-2010, 02:41 AM

I think it is great that we are doing better with the numbers of BEP'S and they are throught the USA. So what do you all think is the next step??? I think we should talk about another fish exchange here in 2 years the continue spreding out the genetics. I have fish from 3 different lines (LOL if there is such a thing) and a line that is crossed out to shukins ( which are awesome!!!)
Allen

kendal

12-07-2010, 02:46 AM

my vote would be tosakin.

Ranchumaniax

12-07-2010, 03:49 AM

Something like these? I am so jealous to Singapore hobbyist!
Direct from Japan. I wish I could get some of these sarasa Tosakin......

http://kensemicon.com/bossfishfarm/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKflYu0wruM
IKflYu0wruM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCgif4IIEJ4
gCgif4IIEJ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M32nXLE-MjQ
M32nXLE-MjQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJsaK4JPOjI
nJsaK4JPOjI

Romewhip

12-07-2010, 06:24 AM

Wow. Just wow. My jaw dropped looking at those, what beautiful fish. A couple really caught my eye- I sure wish you could get those too!

I'm going to stick with trying to get some Izumo Nankin though for next year.

Ranchumaniax

12-07-2010, 06:39 PM

Yes, I got nankin! They will be coming on my next shipment.....
Now I am dreaming of these Japanese Tosakin.....:pray:

kendal

12-07-2010, 10:40 PM

Yes, I got nankin! They will be coming on my next shipment.....
Now I am dreaming of these Japanese Tosakin.....:pray:

Dream harder Paul and keep dreaming until you have them in your pond then call me. ;)

quality BB tosakin in Japan are not all that expensive as compared to what we would have to pay. i have even seen japanese stores advertising 1" BBT on their sites for $10 with tails on them that are already flipping like mini adults. of course they do not ship. i could not even imagine how nice that would be to be that close to the source of such quality fish.

Romewhip

12-07-2010, 10:44 PM

Yes, I got nankin! They will be coming on my next shipment.....
Now I am dreaming of these Japanese Tosakin.....:pray:

you keep taunting me with nankin- I'd be buying if I hadn't contracted to buy a puppy before you announced the nankin. If I get very lucky I might be able to get some in January.

Ranchumaniax

12-08-2010, 02:10 AM

Dream harder Paul and keep dreaming until you have them in your pond then call me. ;)

quality BB tosakin in Japan are not all that expensive as compared to what we would have to pay. i have even seen japanese stores advertising 1" BBT on their sites for $10 with tails on them that are already flipping like mini adults. of course they do not ship. i could not even imagine how nice that would be to be that close to the source of such quality fish.

Seem like my dream is come true!
I got reserve 8 pieces. I can't wait to see them in person.
These are Sarrasa Tosakin from Mr. Kinoshita. One of the Top Tosakin Breeder in Japan. These are not the brown line(Black Olive green color) or Red bloodline, but true line of Red and White. Very unique fish!

Paul

P.S These are cost much much higher than $10. :exact:

bigbettadan

12-08-2010, 02:51 AM

You need to spawn those before you sell them Paul...

Dan

afnaveils

12-08-2010, 03:14 AM

I think we are off topic and a new thread on Tosakins should be started.:exact:

kendal

12-08-2010, 05:31 PM

sorry Gerard. my fault. your BEP look good.

after reviewing the earlier posts, i would suggest trying to spawn the fish dry to increase fertilization rate. the genetic bottleneck may have indeed got your boys shooting many blanks and putting the milt directly on the eggs without water might help the odds of fertilization.

best of luck with the next spawn.

afertuna

12-09-2010, 05:35 AM

A wise man once told me that there are studies that prove that fish communicate when it comes to spawning. This Communication helps to ensure the genetics and keeps fish from inbreeding too much. Considering these ALL came from the fish brought in what 1999? this could easily be thhe reason we are having too many issues with them not breeding as frequently as other breeds. (THEORY) so thats why I think if we wait and do another exchange (Talking about BEP's Only here) we could get actual lines started.Kinda like what I did with the working on the currasow breeding project with Sand Diego Zoo. We actually had to do blood test to make sure that they werent too close of relatives.

johnatoranchu

12-09-2010, 06:20 PM

Dream harder Paul and keep dreaming until you have them in your pond then call me. ;)

quality BB tosakin in Japan are not all that expensive as compared to what we would have to pay. i have even seen japanese stores advertising 1" BBT on their sites for $10 with tails on them that are already flipping like mini adults. of course they do not ship. i could not even imagine how nice that would be to be that close to the source of such quality fish.

Sorry to disillusion you Kendal but there is no such thing as cheap "quality" Tosakin in Japan or indeed anywhere else. If inch long babies are already showing curl in the tail then these are in fact culls and as they grow they will almost certainly flip over onto their backs. Culling baby tosakin is very difficult as initially too many of the babes look "perfect" and studying how babies develop is the only way we in the West will get to understand what to cull and when. I've only had them for a few years but already I've learnt that babies which look too promising too soon simply don't make it.
John

kendal

12-09-2010, 09:14 PM

Jon, out of respect for Gerard i am picking this up in a new thread.

afnaveils

12-10-2010, 12:21 AM

Well, I didn't mean to be possesive of the BEP thread or anything but I think that Tosakins are another interesting variety which deserves a thread of its own. Plus, I'm interested in Tosakins too but I'm keeping a manageable number of varieties at the moment. Maybe one day ... :exact:

afnaveils

12-10-2010, 12:26 AM