Effective Grooming - Fry

[small_ranchu]

This is a continuation of Effective Grooming Discussion. Here I would like to have a discussion of how to raise fry effectively. Since we have a lot of breeding professional here, my question is - what should I do if I want to raise fry effectively?
:worship:

[suphi]

Are we talking SVR or TVR here?

[small_ranchu]

At this point, let discuss in general. If it is neccessary, we can discuss them in seperate topic. :)

[Guenther]

This is a continuation of Effective Grooming Discussion. Here I would like to have a discussion of how to raise fry effectively. Since we have a lot of breeding professional here, my question is - what should I do if I want to raise fry effectively?
:worship:

Only for the first weeks:
The first week I used life brine shrimps, then decapsulated brine shrimp cysts - sometimes adding life brine shrimps...

I did so with very good result, here you can read why:

THE EFFECT OF DIET TYPE AND FEEDING RATE ON GROWTH, MORPHOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT AND BEHAVIOUR OF LARVAL AND JUVENILE GOLDFISH (http://eprints.ru.ac.za/76/01/PAULET-MSc.pdf)

Further the duration of the lighting has a large influence on the growth hormone :exact:

[Cincy Ranchu]

Hey all,

Once they are free swimming I add APR on day 1, then move to brine shrimp unless they are Jikin which were much too small the first time I raised them. Once they eat brineshrimp I push for Zieglers Larval fish food from AES or Golden Pearlsfrom BSD and alternate with live food.

Next I change water and expand tanks until my old eyes or time allows me to start culling at 4 to 5 weeks. ( I know others can cull in days, but some of us have day jobs). Gell food at 4 weeks and ht eother stuff and then ground dried blood worms at four weeks if they are Ranchu or Orandas

Changing waste and expanding volume of water is more important than food type.

GH

[Cincy Ranchu]

Wow, quite the download, thanks a bunch

[small_ranchu]

How often / How much do I feed at this stage? Daily water change?

[King_oF_Ranchu]

I am a novice on breeding goldfish. Based on my knowledge on raising fry.
Water change in the Morning and evening time should do well for fry.
Feeding continue all day long with either Baby brine shrimp or daphnia for period of 45 days.

[bigbettadan]

Yes, in my experience water quality is number one. The more heavy you feed, the higher amount of water changes is needed. It really about hard work...

Dan

[small_ranchu]

I don't have issue with doing water change everyday. But I am working 9-5 and cannot feed them constantly as describe above, especially with live food. Is there a good way to do it? Once I can overcome this step, I can think of breeding goldfish. Thank you.

[Guenther]

I don't have issue with doing water change everyday. But I am working 9-5 and cannot feed them constantly as describe above, especially with live food. Is there a good way to do it? Once I can overcome this step, I can think of breeding goldfish. Thank you.

During the first days, ore longer, you feed live brine shrimps you can add 0.1% salt. The brine shrimps live longer and the fry are protected a little bit against fungus.
If you feed decapsulated brine shrimps cysts you can give this food for the whole day because during this time it doesn't spoil, only swell a little bit.
Change water when you are coming home. Decapsulated cysts:

http://www.shubunkin.de/temp/artemia_cysts.jpg

[small_ranchu]

Thanks Guenther,
Is it the product are you talking about?
http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/c1/c2/Decapsulated-Non-HatchingBrine-Shrimp-Eggs-c21.html

[Guenther]

Thanks Guenther,
Is it the product are you talking about?
http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/c1/c2/Decapsulated-Non-HatchingBrine-Shrimp-Eggs-c21.html


:yess: Yes, try it!

[Guenther]

:yess: Yes, try it!

Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300293179269

[bekko]

I'm still skeptical about decapsulated artemia cysts and, hopefully, will do a controlled comparison some time.

You can grow fry and work a nine-to-five though. I strive to feed throughout the day, but sometimes sleep late, sometimes have other things to do, et cetera, which limits it to two feedings per day. It is difficult to optimize everything, but we all just do what we can. To put it into perspective, the number of feedings per day seems to have less impact on growth and survival than stocking density and water exchange rates.

-steve

[Guenther]

...the number of feedings per day seems to have less impact on growth and survival than stocking density and water exchange rates.

First, fresh clean water is a must.

In the past I feed my fry every 4 hours, 5 times a day.
During this time, I tested different foods.
At the beginning the growth rate of my fantail was 1 cm per month.
Here you can see a shart that you also can find on my homepage:

http://www.shubunkin.de/temp/growth_rate.jpg

After one year I concluded that combination of different foods and feed rate are significant to growth rate.
At the end of my testing the growth rate was 9 cm per 4 month. You can see the result on this fish - 9 cm (more than 3 and a half inches) after 4 month.
The growth rate was
3 cm after 2 month; 6cm after 3 month; 9 cm after 4 month

http://www.shubunkin.de/fantail/images/101206.jpg

[small_ranchu]

Guenther,
It's an interesting finding. Can you translate the graph to English please? Thank you.

[Guenther]

Guenther,
It's an interesting finding. Can you translate the graph to English please? Thank you.

Fred, the graph is from my first year of testing, there were 6 fantails I startet with.
The fantails lenght was 3 cm, after 1 year they were 15 cm each.
The combined weight was 18 grams, after 1 year 458 grams (1 lbs).
I fed the fish with different koi granules and added rice.
But, this was the first testing.

Later, I measured my fish and weight them in similar setups with different foods and got better growth rate like 9cm per 4 month.
This result you can see in the pictures, between day 1 and 4 month, I show at the bottom of the site
http://www.shubunkin.de/fantail/index.html

[thomasn]

I don't have issue with doing water change everyday. But I am working 9-5 and cannot feed them constantly as describe above, especially with live food. Is there a good way to do it? Once I can overcome this step, I can think of breeding goldfish. Thank you.

:exact:

I'm another 9to5'er .. I've been thinking about reversing the day/night cycle, putting a light on a timer and setting it on at 5pm and turn off at 3am for an 10 hour day. Saltwater hobbyists do this, seems like it would work for goldfish..:youtellme:

[small_ranchu]

:exact:

I'm another 9to5'er .. I've been thinking about reversing the day/night cycle, putting a light on a timer and setting it on at 5pm and turn off at 3am for an 10 hour day. Saltwater hobbyists do this, seems like it would work for goldfish..:youtellme:

How does it work? Are you planning to go to bed after 3 every day?

[thomasn]

How does it work? Are you planning to go to bed after 3 every day?

I have a 2 bedroom apartment; 1 bedroom for fish and one for me. then put timers on lights. I do it for my green water tub and freshwater planted tanks to keep all the lights off during peak hours when electricity is expensive.

plus it would only be for a month or so...

[bekko]

That would be the most effective way to handle the fry. It's a lot of hassle setting up the black-out room and timers, but great if you have the place for it. I would go for a 15-hour day though. That should let you feed them before leaving in the morning. Also, the longer the day length, the faster they can grow.

People raising fish with a discrete annual spawning season use a set-up like this to manipulate the day length and control out-of-season spawning. You can usually have spring come around about every four to five months and the fish never know the difference.

-steve

[Ranchu Rancher]

I have used naja grass in my fry tanks in the past. When I feed I make sure to place a little extra over the grass. That way while I'm at work they have something to eat. I just spawned my first Ranchu fry. I will try this with them as well. I work 12hr. shifts so feeding is difficult. The up side is I'm off four days a week.


Gregg

[harzan]

I would also suggest that you have treatment for flukes ready...and make sure you are able to identify them right away. The issue of flukes took me from survival rates of a few dozen a year to thousands!

[bodyboarder]

HARAZAN It would be great to learn more about Flukes!! I have not had them in my tanks but everyone talks about them!! :youtellme:

[johnatoranchu]

My Ranchu are reared in 6ft x 5ft ponds, water depth 4 inches, sponge filter, water at 80F. 100% water changes every 4/5 days commencing as soon as the fry are large enough to be caught/handled safely (about 7 to 10 days, culling starts at the same time). Feed on newly hatched brine shrimp until babes are about an inch long then switch to bloodworm. Add salt to water at 3 to 5 grams per litre and (Utah) brine shrimp will live until eaten, therefore providing continuous live food throughout the day. Feeding "dead" food (dried, gel, etc.,) is far too dangerous to use unless you are able and prepared to monitor water conditions on a daily basis.
Same methodology used for my other varieties except water depth usually 8 inches and 6ft x 2ft, 5ft x 2ft, and 4ft x 2ft aquariums used when I run out of ponds - Ranchu have priority for pond space!
John
John

[devins23]

John - do you use live bw or fbw? Thanks.

[johnatoranchu]

John - do you use live bw or fbw? Thanks.

Bloodworm are frozen. Ruto from Holland. I'm collecting 60 kilos in 100 gram flat packs tomorrow!!!
John

[johnatoranchu]

My earlier reference to the danger of feeding "dead" food relates specifically to feeding fry as water changing is not easy. Once the babes' bodies are an inch long, "dead" food can be fed safely, in my case frozen bloodworm, as the fish can then be caught and handled during water changes without causing damage.
John

[mattpadrigan]

how long till the first water change from the water that they were hatched in? i currently spawned and hatched this afternoon. i have not done any water change and wondering when i should do the first one.