Peroxide dip

[suphi]

Has anybody done peroxide dip? Care to share your experience and/or protocol? I'm curious.

[cowiche ponder]

anything I've ever read says to keep peroxide out of eyes/gills. I've used it to clean an ulcer, but never as a dip...

More info?

[afertuna]

I use a 1-9 ratio with water for fluke dips and it works great and has no effect on the health of the fish in fact some of the medicine for ponds has you poor peroxide directly in the pond to oxydize the meds when they are done to remove them.

[cowiche ponder]

what strength peroxide?? there is the stuff at the drug store and there is the food grade stuff 33% that at 1-9 would eat the fish in a few hours.

1 quart (drug store stuff) to 1000 gallons of water (or is it 2?) isn't 1-9 either but is what is used to reverse a potassium permanganate.

[Ichthius]

drug store grade is 3%.

Look on the Pure gold web site they have details there.

[Sabine]

Just be cautious. There were people at gfp who claimed to have followed that procedure, and killed all their fish with it :youtellme:.
If dosed too high peroxide will burn the gills.
I have only used it to disinfect small spots and to neutralize PP after disinfecting plants.

[mikroll]

Greetings Suphi
I use the H202 dip treatment now for several years. kills fluke instantly but must be used with care.
" Ten-Ten " treatment:
supermarket peroxide 3 or 3.6%
1. dilute to 10 parts water 1 part peroxide
2. dip fish for not more than 10 seconds, ( hae experimented with 5-8 second on month old fry)
3. dip fish in a strong salt bath if you are sure they have flukes
4. return fish

young or weak fish have loss rate of about 10-20%

this i use often but not on my babys fry.
you may see what it does to flukes in a short video at my photobucket too.

[cowiche ponder]

Greetings Suphi
I use the H202 dip treatment now for several years. kills fluke instantly but must be used with care.
" Ten-Ten " treatment:
supermarket peroxide 3 or 3.6%
1. dilute to 10 parts water 1 part peroxide
2. dip fish for not more than 10 seconds, ( hae experimented with 5-8 second on month old fry)
3. dip fish in a strong salt bath if you are sure they have flukes
4. return fish

young or weak fish have loss rate of about 10-20%

this i use often but not on my babys fry.
you may see what it does to flukes in a short video at my photobucket too.

Question on the salt dip first why? then what strength?

I saw a video on live flukes..was there another I missed?

[suphi]

Thanks for your comments. The 10-10 rule seems easy enough to remember. I'm gonna have to try it on my fish sometimes, gotta pick a strong one to test this. I've spent way too much on prophylatic/preventative treatments. Modern medications are quite costly, and this may be a more economical way to do it. I've tried potassium permanganate dip but my fish didn't really like it, floated sideway within 10 sec and remained lethargic for a whole day or two.

[mikroll]

Question on the salt dip first why? then what strength?

I saw a video on live flukes..was there another I missed?

Hi cowiche,
there are several videos of flukes in the sub album "parasites" you probably saw the one of the flukes on an adult gill
here is one on a 30 day old fry , they can be seen as a white mass on the gills (which should be pink/red) with out magnification too. go here:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/mikroll/calico%20oranda/parasites/th_30gflukelive.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/mikroll/calico%20oranda/parasites/?action=view&current=30gflukelive.flv)
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/mikroll/calico%20oranda/parasites/30gflukes.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/mikroll/calico%20oranda/parasites/30gfluke.jpg

salt dip to help flush out the dam worms and all the mucus that forms and chokes the little fish. Strong salt dip like 25 grams in a little 2 - 3 liter bowl for 15-20 minutes . also then comes the infection so water can be super clean and treated with antibiotics.

[mikroll]

Thanks for your comments. The 10-10 rule seems easy enough to remember. I'm gonna have to try it on my fish sometimes, gotta pick a strong one to test this. I've spent way too much on prophylatic/preventative treatments. Modern medications are quite costly, and this may be a more economical way to do it. I've tried potassium permanganate dip but my fish didn't really like it, floated sideway within 10 sec and remained lethargic for a whole day or two.

Hi suphi,
yes my reasons for a treament are:
must be easy, must be of common obtainable localy materials, must be cheap, and must not harm the fishkeeper.speed of treatment is also desired.
( I have tried all that other stuff out there too)

observing the reaction of flukes to praziquantel and peroxide under microscope we see that the flukes jump and then stop to move within seconds of peroxide application whereas with the prazi it took nearly an hour for them to stop jerking around.
here they react to peroxide:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/mikroll/calico%20oranda/parasites/th_GDH2O2.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/mikroll/calico%20oranda/parasites/?action=view&current=GDH2O2.flv)
and here to prazi (time lasped pictures about an hour) note how fluke have release grip from gill and are spaztic jerking reacting to the prazi.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/mikroll/calico%20oranda/parasites/th_flukesDetached.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/mikroll/calico%20oranda/parasites/?action=view&current=flukesDetached.flv)

I can give you links to where you can see how others use it and where I too learned about it. although I found that 9 to 1 was too strong and that the 10 seconds MUST be respected or ...else.

[suphi]

Excellent, mikroll. I can see no reason for me to conitnue to pay $$ for Prazi if the good ol' peroxide works just as well. Keeping it simple is the best way to go. Now I just need to pick my test subject, lol.

[mikroll]

Whoa suphi,
Yes is true that for all the reasons the H202 dip is good but.............
it is harsh and fish subject should be fairly healthy to begin with I think
and
it does not treat the tank where some of the evil fluke egg/larva may be lurking too. whereas prazi and others will treat entire contents.

In fact I am in a to the death battle again with flukes, now today, and have completed dips on the adults but the fry are lost ( out of 1000 about 250 remain) and even though they had prazi from hatch still some are infected and now are getting dosed again. and more prazi is arriving from friends soon so I can repeat and dose all tanks and ponds, ugh. Yes and for more than one year have been fluke free too.

so word is do not throw away any thing in the war chest that can fight these little beasts.

[afertuna]

Can I just add when dealing with any disease or infestation what works for me may not work for someone else something I am learning in the chat rooms there are way too many variables.We are all from different areas, countries and water qualtities. When I have used the h202 dip the 3% 1-9 ratio it was on new fish that I get and they have been generally healthy and under the microscope the flukes have completely died off. I dont generally have problems with flukes but I have a friend that has flukes in her water system and all her fish always have them.She has to do a fluke treatment on her fish regularly. I have never used it on lathargic or small fish. I try not to use anything stronger than salt on my fish unless I really have to. I have used soo many of the medicines out there for different problems like Prazi ect. ect.The only thing I have found in my case is I ended up killing more than saving. Mind you I am an amature breeder and there are many others that have more knowledge here. This just has been my experience so far.

[Ichthius]

Hi Allan

It sounds like your friend may have egg laying flukes. This is where prazi comes in very useful as it has a longer life span in the system but you still need to treat a couple times (can't recall the frequency, and it's temperature dependant) to make sure you get all the new hatchlings.

Peroxide can work as a bath for new fish but once flukes are in your systems it can be a pain to treat and dips won't get the eggs as they can persist in the environment so you treat to kill the adults and then again before the eggs can become mature adults.

Prazi is safe enough for children over 3 or 5 years old to take to get rid of flukes if you've been exposed to them in the tropics so I consider it very safe and effective.

[Ichthius]

Everyone should watch Mikroll's videos...

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/mikroll/calico%20oranda/parasites/th_GDH2O2.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/mikroll/calico%20oranda/parasites/?action=view&current=GDH2O2.flv)


All those bubbles are the tissue of the flukes but you're so close to that being the tissue of the gills that peroxide must be used with great caution.

A little to strong or long and your fish are dead along with the flukes.

Prazi is a bit slower but it's totally safe for your fish.

If I'm going to dip a fish I usually use permanganate or formalin (less used due to carcinogenic potential) as their difference between health and over dose is much greater than that of peroxide.

Though I did leave some feeders in the permanganate a bit to long recently...

[Cincy Ranchu]

Suphi

Ken Fisher does this routinely, you might ask him