Another cycling question

[sanggarra]

Hi, there all,
I have been a long time reader and recently decided to join the forum after getting a used setup.

I have cycled fishless with the used setup (gravels, filters with bio-wheel) I did not put ammonia yet in 11 days I am getting reading of Ammonia 0ppm; Nitrite 0ppm; Nitrate 20ppm. Is this even possible?

Or you think it may be the cycle have not even started?

I am advised by a reputable friend here to nuke and start over just in case there is parasites, etc. from the used stuff... I hate to restart, getting the gravels out of the tank is such a PITA. And it will set me back another 10 days

So forging ahead with the stupid notion that I will make large water changes (50% wc every other day for 3 weeks) as advised and will be taking a couple of precaution with salt and Aqua-prazi.
Hopefully I do not kill any of my fish.

Do all of you think I am nuts or I am taking an acceptable risk?

[Fishman43]

I posted in your new user thread as well, but if you aren't adding ammonia to the tank than a reading of 0 is right on. Many waters these days come right out of the faucet with Nitrate so unless you have a baseline of your water a 20ppm is hard to give you an answer on.

[sanggarra]

I posted in your new user thread as well, but if you aren't adding ammonia to the tank than a reading of 0 is right on. Many waters these days come right out of the faucet with Nitrate so unless you have a baseline of your water a 20ppm is hard to give you an answer on.

Thank you! Fishman43 for replying.

I thought of that too and have finally made a Nitrate measurement today. It is a lil more than 5ppm.

I have added guppies in it yesterday since I tho I should have. Do you think I should just remove them and use ammonia instead? I think I will go that route.

[suphi]

How big is your tank and what kind of fish do you plan to keep?

[sanggarra]

How big is your tank and what kind of fish do you plan to keep?

It's a pentagon 44ga tank and I am think 4 fancies. I know I am pushing it a little.

I went all round town looking for ammonia (ammonium hydroxide) to cycle the tank. Found "clear ammonia" in Walgreens and Walmart but both foams when shaken. The Walmart branded "Great Value" list ammonia hydroxide and surfactants as ingredients. Home Depot and Target both does not carry plain ammonia. This is much harder than I thought... :(

Funny thing is I read discussion in another forum and they list the Great Value ammonia as one that one of their members successfully used! :youtellme:

[BruceP]

For as often as you have to test to do a fishless cycle ya might as well put a coupla fish in and continue testing and do more water changes. Personal opinion there... lol

[suphi]

Personally, I wouldn't even bother with cycling. Cycling is more suitable for tropical fish keepers who hope to avoid doing WC more than once a week. Well, you can keep goldfish like tropicals but they will not do well. With 4 fancies in a 44G tank you'll be doing lots of WC, that is if you plan to feed them properly, as goldfish can and will produce an insane amount of waste.

Put the fish in and do WC a couple of times a week, that's what I'd do.

[johnatoranchu]

It's a pentagon 44ga tank and I am think 4 fancies. I know I am pushing it a little.

I went all round town looking for ammonia (ammonium hydroxide) to cycle the tank. Found "clear ammonia" in Walgreens and Walmart but both foams when shaken. The Walmart branded "Great Value" list ammonia hydroxide and surfactants as ingredients. Home Depot and Target both does not carry plain ammonia. This is much harder than I thought... :(

Funny thing is I read discussion in another forum and they list the Great Value ammonia as one that one of their members successfully used! :youtellme:

The easiest way to add ammonia to a tank if you want to go down this route is free and simple - PEE in it!!!!!!
Don't worry about nitrate, goldfish are nitrate tolerant. Readings over 200ppm might worry them a little but anything below 100ppm is neither here nor there always with the proviso that nothing is sudden.
John

[Cincy Ranchu]

Throw the fish in the tank and do a partial water change twice a week and forget about the amatuer chemistry lessons on cycling. It is pretty much a waste of time if you are willing to change the water. Some live plants will will help all the nitrogen forms and also have the Nitrobacter living on them.....

[George Washington]

Sanggarra,
I have never tested my water in 15 years. If I can drink it from the tap (fawcet) my goldfish can live in it. Just put some fish in; under stock and do plenty water changes. After a while you will get a nose for water that is 'going off' and you may have to do an earlier or bigger water change.

Healthy goldfish live with parasites in the system. It is only when they get huge extremes or sudden changes that they are weakened and the parasites get the upper hand.

Nice one John but my tanks are at eye-level, maybe in my younger daysl!!!

Just go for it and put your goldfish in the water.... in the words of Yoshio Watanabi (Handbook of Goldfish) ]"If it is begun a day earlier then the pleasure will last a day longer"[/B]

George

[nygold]

I haven't tested my water for anything more than PH in a few years.
When I see the PH starting to go down I do a water change, and I only test it because my 5 year old thinks it's fun. John the peeing trick isn't a bad idea I started a large green water pool in my yard by peeing in it. Not directly I wizzed in a cup then dumped it into the pool. In about a week or so I had beautiful green water.

[opera]

I saw you adding guppies to your tank. Just make sure the guppies are healthy. It is always the risk to add in other fish in the tank. Adding other fish in the tank to test out the water is not always a good idea, since the fish that you get might have parasite and contaminate the tank. When I just started my tank, I made a mistake introducing other fish in the tank for re-cycling. The fish that i put in had parasite and contaminated my tank. Now i did not use water cycling anymore since i know my tab water is good.

Opera

[sanggarra]

For as often as you have to test to do a fishless cycle ya might as well put a coupla fish in and continue testing and do more water changes. Personal opinion there... lol

Bruce,
At this point that is kinda what I feel like doing. :((

[sanggarra]

Personally, I wouldn't even bother with cycling. Cycling is more suitable for tropical fish keepers who hope to avoid doing WC more than once a week. Well, you can keep goldfish like tropicals but they will not do well. With 4 fancies in a 44G tank you'll be doing lots of WC, that is if you plan to feed them properly, as goldfish can and will produce an insane amount of waste.

Put the fish in and do WC a couple of times a week, that's what I'd do.

You are seriously making me thinking about just getting 3 instead of 4. I can do weekly but twice weekly is a burden for me. Thanks for the advice, Suphi.

[sanggarra]

The easiest way to add ammonia to a tank if you want to go down this route is free and simple - PEE in it!!!!!!
Don't worry about nitrate, goldfish are nitrate tolerant. Readings over 200ppm might worry them a little but anything below 100ppm is neither here nor there always with the proviso that nothing is sudden.
John

:exact: I thought of that too... :D
My wife think I am going bonkers already with this fish tank cycling thing.:confuse:
She would think I went over the edge if I start peeing in my tank. :BackOut: LOL!

Anyways, I finally found good ammonia today from Ace hardware. So far this is the only place in town I was able to find this stuff. I would not have to pee in the tank after all. Heheheeehhee....

Stan

[sanggarra]

I saw you adding guppies to your tank. Just make sure the guppies are healthy. It is always the risk to add in other fish in the tank. Adding other fish in the tank to test out the water is not always a good idea, since the fish that you get might have parasite and contaminate the tank. When I just started my tank, I made a mistake introducing other fish in the tank for re-cycling. The fish that i put in had parasite and contaminated my tank. Now i did not use water cycling anymore since i know my tab water is good.

Opera

Opera,
I took them out. Bekko said they are bad... maybe too late... Dunno.
But I really hate to nuke it because I have gravel and UGF already setup. And my gravel is setup to have the smaller gravel in the bottom with large gravel/stones on top. It took me hours to sort them and lay them so... :-P

I plan to add salt and prazi the tank and watch closely when I get my goldies.

[sanggarra]

Thank you all SO very much for all you input and humor. :))
I am enjoying being a part of this family in GFK.

My conclusion from all the input I get is
1. Don't get hung up with this "cycling"
2. W/C, W/C, W/C,... did I said W/C?...!
3. If I need to go bad for #1 I can go in my tank. >:)

Am I about right? :banana:

Thanks again and :HiThere

[suphi]

#4. Don't overstock, unless you want to do more frequent WC :)

I was overstocking for almost a year and a half before I moved my ranchu outdoor. I had to do WC *daily* on a 40G tank to keep up with the water quality--you wouldn't believe the amount of poops they can produce, just check the pics in my outdoor setup thread. When I bring my ranchu back indoor this winter it's gonna be the same routine again.

[sanggarra]

#4. Don't overstock, unless you want to do more frequent WC :)

I was overstocking for almost a year and a half before I moved my ranchu outdoor. I had to do WC *daily* on a 40G tank to keep up with the water quality--you wouldn't believe the amount of poops they can produce, just check the pics in my outdoor setup thread. When I bring my ranchu back indoor this winter it's gonna be the same routine again.

Thanks! Suphi.

:exact:

I think I will start with 3 as you adviced. If I think I can handle the WC, I will add another.