Culling Jikin fry

[Jikin Junkie]

I have a large batch of Jikin fry and I am having difficulty in culling based on tail. The fry are 2-3 months old and I have already weeded out crooked spines, tails, and extremely small ones. Since I have been uncertain what to look for I have divided them into 3 batches of really small ones, wakin tail type, then other tail types. So far I have noticed two sets of tail types, one set of wakin looking tail types and a set with tails that are double but lack spread. I have not yet found any that resemble the parents so I'm wondering if the tails take a time to develop or if I just don't have a good batch of fry? Any advice would be gratefully appreciated. :worship:

-Gina

[johnatoranchu]

I have a large batch of Jikin fry and I am having difficulty in culling based on tail. The fry are 2-3 months old and I have already weeded out crooked spines, tails, and extremely small ones. Since I have been uncertain what to look for I have divided them into 3 batches of really small ones, wakin tail type, then other tail types. So far I have noticed two sets of tail types, one set of wakin looking tail types and a set with tails that are double but lack spread. I have not yet found any that resemble the parents so I'm wondering if the tails take a time to develop or if I just don't have a good batch of fry? Any advice would be gratefully appreciated. :worship:

-Gina

Not sure what you mean by "wakin type tails" Gina but if you are seeing "wakin" characteristics in your Jikin then clearly they should be culled. Tails do "open" as the fish get older so don't be in too much of a hurry to cull tails which are held close together. Needless to say, tails must be divided and fish must have twin anals. The front rays of the tail should be held at a steep angle when viewed from the side, the closer to 90 degrees the better and the lobes of each half of the tail should be one above the other. If when you look at the tail from above the top lobes are close together and the bottom lobes splay outwards then these should be discarded (perhaps this is what you mean by "wakin tail"). When viewed from above the best tails should leave the peduncle as a U rather than a V as the latter seldom acquire the desired spread. Hope this helps. What's happening to the colour?
John

[Jikin Junkie]

Thank you. Yes, I mostly see a "V" shape instead of the "U" shape. The color is still iron or brown since they are so young.
-Gina

[bigbettadan]

Sounds early to be too harsh on tail.... But congrats for even getting a Jikin spawn, that seems a feat in itself...


Dan

[Jikin Junkie]

Thanks! The first time they spawned in early March, I wasn't ready for it and lost the fry to a malfunctioning heater. The second time I was at work and came home to find most of the eggs eaten. I actually saved more than I realized. I think I have around 300 fry. I have let up on the heavy feeding regime for the parents and will move the male to his own tank. I have spawned a variety of tropicals but this is my first time for goldfish. :)

[bigbettadan]

Gary has been trying to get a jikin spawn with frustrating results..... chasing but no eggs, eggs but no milt... crud. I do know Jikins would be VERY popular here in the states if we could get a decent line to breed...

Dan

[Jikin Junkie]

I had five fish in a 55 gallon with large airstone and lots of anacharis. I stuffed them full of red worms, blood worms, duckweed, flake, and sinking pellets until I thought they would burst...hee hee. I did massive water changes. All of that combined with a good old roof ripping thunderstorm is what seemed to do the trick. :yess:

Gina

[Jikin Junkie]

Not good at getting decent pics yet. I think it worked?

[elusiveracer]

Yep, it worked. :thumbUp:

[Cincy Ranchu]

I would suggest that one's with clamped tails should be dispatched. The remainder I raise until the tail peduncle drift south and it looks like a wakin.

The amount of spread in the tail changes over time, culling too early is bad. Also these goys tend to decolor slowly

[Jikin Junkie]

I think it's a keeper! This is the largest one, about 10 times the size of the rest. Not sure why it's so much larger but I think it's time to move it before it dines on others. :D
-Gina

[elusiveracer]

That's if he hasn't already. >:) Huge!

[Jikin Junkie]

They are hard to photograph! Getting bigger and faster and I think I have a calico in there?:yess:

[elusiveracer]

My fish are still brown. :cry:

[Jikin Junkie]

You want some more? HEE HEE. ;)

[elusiveracer]

Want? Yeah. Can? Probably not. :)) Are you noticing a difference in the tails? I'm not sure if the top half will meet with the bottom on the ones that look like wakin tails. I am keeping a close eye though there are a couple I think will have the right spread or something close to it.

[johnatoranchu]

Sorry Gina, but none of the babes in your photos have the correct Jikin tail. The tails are too flat and this will almost certainly worsen as the fish get older. Ideally the tail should leave the body at 90 degrees, that is as close to upright as possible. I now understand your earlier references to "Wakin type tails".
John

[Jikin Junkie]

Thanks for the critique John. Ah that's disappointing. I thought the tails were turning out very well on most of them? The parents had good tails? Should I try different breeding stock? I took an above pic too. Little blurry, sorry.

[johnatoranchu]

Thanks for the critique John. Ah that's disappointing. I thought the tails were turning out very well on most of them? The parents had good tails? Should I try different breeding stock? I took an above pic too. Little blurry, sorry.

This one is much better than those in the group photo. This is a keeper! Keep persevering.
John

[Jikin Junkie]

The Jikin fry are growing fast and I am now down to 40 fish after the most recent culling. I am leaving on vacation for 14 days and I don't know how it is going to affect them. The house sitter knows how to feed but..it's the water changes I worry about. I change 50% daily. Should I cut down on feed while I'm gone? Will this affect them long term? Any tips/advice would greatly be appreciated! Thanks! :worship:
-Gina

[kendal]

when i have had to leave fish for a few, i also turn of heaters to slow metabolism and also reduce feeding to match.

[Cincy Ranchu]

Get some coin collecting envelopes and put the food in these for feeding every other day. Putthe enevelops in a plastic baggie and hang on the side of the tank.

[Jikin Junkie]

That's a great idea thanks! I:-S've already made a few calls to the house sitter, keeping my fingers crossed. We'll see what happens when I get back...:

[Jikin Junkie]

What's more difficult, culling fry or photographing them? I have a little spare time this weekend so I think I'll work on my photography skills. It's more fun that culling! :exact:

[Cincy Ranchu]

Can we get a photo from the top sometime to look at the spread of the tail

[Jikin Junkie]

Here ya go, still working on good photos. They are fast!

[Cincy Ranchu]

With some sunlight the red would be in all the right places. The tail spread seems to be the line between perfect and too flat. How do the swim?

[Jikin Junkie]

They are fast and strong. I have several where the tail is a little closer together and they are quickest to the food. Trying to get better pics. They are really active tonight. The parents have very open tails and swim like beasts!

[Cincy Ranchu]

While I know John would say keep the white ones and through the rest away, I think you might want to chat with him about tail fins and peduncle length.

One uncolored fish in the upper third of the picture has a very short peduncle. I believe this is what you need going forward. Clamped tails and open too far should also be sold off. Consider keeping the whitest fish and uncolored fish with short peduncles and getting down to 12 to 18 fish.

cheers

[Jikin Junkie]

Ah thanks! Wish I had someone to come over and take a good look at these with experienced eyes. I thought some were a little too short in the body and I wonder if grooming plays a factor. I'm wanting to put them outside in the horse trough in the spring to color up and grow out more. I have a lot of culls, I don't think there is a market for them locally so I will just recycle >:)
-Gina

[chengie]

do you have any for sale..? i like these fish a lot but seems they are hard to come by....let me know...I live in Milwaukee so i'm not too far from you...


cheng

[Jikin Junkie]

Chengie, PM sent..thanks.

[Ranchufan16]

lovely Fish! No one around here seems to have any Jikin, great job! Love them!

[Jikin Junkie]

Why didn't I think to put them in the bowl before? Duh!

[small_ranchu]

Nice nice... congratulations...

[Jikin Junkie]

Thank you Fred. I would like to show some of these fish this summer but I'm not sure if I am grooming them properly, if they are growing fast enough? I do 50% water changes every two days and stuff them full of food like bloodworms, pellets, flake, duckweed, and brine shrimp. I keep the temp at room temp which in my basement is 68 degrees. I've bred and sold all kinds of fish but I've never participated in a goldfish show so I'm looking forward to it this year. Should I beef them up? :youtellme:

[small_ranchu]

I guess you are doing good especially for long body fish. Lets see pic again in two week. Please put a ruler or quarter for size comparison.

[Jikin Junkie]

Ah good idea. The quarter really frightened them though. I'll try again in two weeks. :yess:

[bigbettadan]

Please show! I will be judging the Indy show, and I can tell you, I judge the best fish, not the biggest. And we have a baby grand champion as well!

Dan

[Jikin Junkie]

In two weeks to me it looks as if they have put on more girth and about 1/4" in length. Does not show up in photos well. More interesting is the color change. For example in the first picture compared to the second. This one has interesting color, more of a blue body with yellow fins.

[Ranchufan16]

In two weeks to me it looks as if they have put on more girth and about 1/4" in length. Does not show up in photos well. More interesting is the color change. For example in the first picture compared to the second. This one has interesting color, more of a blue body with yellow fins.

fascinating fish you have! they are growing well!! great job! let me know if you ever want to part with some;) I can't find anyone around here who has Jikin

[tosakin_fancier]

Beautiful Jikins!!! Especially the one with the 12 spot colouration...but I think the ones i'll be receiving won't be as nicely coloured as yours as mine is from Fuzhou.:(

[afnaveils]

Is it easy to import goldfish into Malaysia?

[tosakin_fancier]

Well, kind of easy but we also have to go through the usual procedures that most importers experience. Maybe its because we're really close and surrounded by countries that rear goldfish commercially like Thailand, Indonesia, China and Japan.But usually they export their fish to us instead us importing their fish. SO, the import export process and shipment can be done quickly and within a shorter time.

[Jikin Junkie]

I can see a growth spurt in their mass but it does not show up well in the pictures. I've culled down to 12 in a 55 gallon. Working on the this years spawn but I lost 2 of my breeder females so I'm left with just a male and a female who acts like a male. They just circle each other, no eggs. :youtellme:

[Jikin Junkie]

Well my photo skills have not improved but I've been preoccupied with contacting friends in Tokyo so I haven't been as focused on the fish room this week. Here are some pics I took today. :)

[Ranchufan16]

I was actually just going to ask you how it was going! These are looking great! Hope all of your friends in Tokyo are ok

[Hondataeg6]

Their turning out Great.

[tosakin_fancier]

Beautiful. beautiful...they are absolutely beautiful. I am so jealous right now! My jikins are no match for ur jikins.

[chengie]

they look beautiful im still waiting on your next batch

[Jikin Junkie]

Decided to do a group shot today. The best in a big bowl! >:)

[small_ranchu]

Very nice.. good job my friend..

[bigbettadan]

Very nice to see!

Dan

[Jikin Junkie]

Moved some outside for grow out but I don't think I'll move them all. I saw 3 stray cats and a possum yesterday and I'm biting my nails. I'll just keep the breeders inside as a backup. I'm wondering if the red will intensify and how long that will take outside? Pics soon.

[Jikin Junkie]

I am considering bringing some of my fish to the Chicago show. I have some outside that are coming in this week. My question is should I treat them for parasites/disease as a precaution before the show? From what I've read it seem that any fish outside in a pond setting carry something. I'm not sure how to prep them for the show other than fasting for a few days prior. What does everyone else do? Thanks.
-Gina

[Jikin Junkie]

Fish are at the show! :yess:

[small_ranchu]

Good luck!!!!

[Cincy Ranchu]

Really nice fish, Parker tends to select for the shortest peduncles

[Lennard]

Very informative and interesting thread.

Thanks for taking the time to keep this thread updated.

Lennard

[Jikin Junkie]

Forgot to update about the Darien show. The two Jikins I brought won Reserve Baby Grand Champion and Best in variety "other" over three inches category. I was very pleased overall and I am looking forward to next year. Lot of fun!:yess:
*The last pic is from the Midwest Pond and Koi website.

[Jikin Junkie]

Hopefuls for breeding stock next year. Such slow growers, they are now a year old. They have proved to be much hardier than the parents who have mostly passed on already. Haven't spawned a thing this year, only grooming.

[Cincy Ranchu]

You should be very pleased, thanks for sharing

[Ichthius]

Awesome.

Do they have buoyancy issues?

[Jikin Junkie]

Only one seems to tilt a little headfirst as it has a very short body, the rest are always busy looking for food so the only pics I can get is after feeding when they slow down and search for more food. :))

[Ichthius]

They look like they are chewin.

[Jikin Junkie]

The last of my original breeding group died today of unknown causes. Just like the others before, no signs of illness, water conditions good, no trauma. Just floating, mouth open, dead. I would take it to my vet for gill scrape but they are closed on Sundays. I just hope that the offspring I have will breed next spring. I think I'm done buying imports.

[Cincy Ranchu]

The last of my original breeding group died today of unknown causes. Just like the others before, no signs of illness, water conditions good, no trauma. Just floating, mouth open, dead. I would take it to my vet for gill scrape but they are closed on Sundays. I just hope that the offspring I have will breed next spring. I think I'm done buying imports.

Yes, my three excursions into Jikins all ended the same way. I am down to one giant red Jikin from DO. The 20 from Paul, did not last very long. I think only Veiltail Guy has a nice large breeding group. He is quiet on the qulity and whether they are for sale.

[aqua]

The last of my original breeding group died today of unknown causes. Just like the others before, no signs of illness, water conditions good, no trauma. Just floating, mouth open, dead. I would take it to my vet for gill scrape but they are closed on Sundays. I just hope that the offspring I have will breed next spring. I think I'm done buying imports.

Oh my, what a sad note. But at least you have the offspring to continue on the legacy. Something to cheer about. Just put back the smile for Christmas >:D<