Breeders vs. Groomed 'show' fish

[CStufft]

Are different techniques used when you keep fish for breeding purposes versus showing?

Example, TVR generally accepted should not be kept in more than 12 inches of water. Is that for show fish or all fish? Could you keep breeders in say a standard 20 inch deep tank?

I am not sure what other grooming techniques are used by people who show fish or other varieties? Temperatures, indoors vs. outdoors, feeding, water depths, size of tank/pond, etc?

Please share what works and doesn't for you if you goal is breeding vs. showing or the other way around.

Thanks,
Chris

[Virginia ranchu]

Hi Chris,

Unless you have a fairly big operation where you are keeping separate breeding (seed) fish and show fish, then you are probably in the same situation as most small scale hobbyists who consider their best stock both breeders and show fish. For those that groom fish specifically for show, I believe the main difference is in how fast and large they are grown. Show fish are given more room to grow and additional food. They will grow fast and large, but may be poor spawners because of their size. These fish will likely not live as long as "breder fish" that are kept relatively leaner, and are overwintered outdoors to condition them for breeding.

In the case of ranchu, the shallower water supposedly helps with both wen and peduncle development, but unless you have the proper type of tubs, you must be careful not to shortchange the fish in total water volume in favor of shallow water.

Rob

[suphi]

I don't breed, not yet anyway, so can't help you with breeding aspect. Very young TVR should be kept in shallow water (6 inches or less), or you'll see poor development in wen growth and tail which tends to become folded instead of spreading out. Overcrowding also prevents proper development. Give them as much horizontal space as you can afford.

You can keep older TVR in higher water depth, it's just not ideal. I kept one of mine with the SVR for a year before putting him outdoor with other TVR. He was initially a runt, but with proper space and feeding has caught up in size and development. The key is to avoid underfeeding as they're supposed to look like a Sumo wrestler--big, muscular. They're very good swimmer compared to other fat-bodied fancies, but may not tolerate poor water condition as well.

For show fish, frequent feeding (4-5x/day) is important since skinny TVR aren't considered beautiful and underfeeding will definitely impede development. I don't think temperature matters much, they can adapt very well as long as there is no rapid temp swing.

We, in the US, are still relatively new in the TVR scene compared to several other countries. There's still a lot to learn, but this forum has a lot of TVR keepers and the list is growing.

[suphi]

One thing that I do to maintain good water quality is scooping out poops every morning and evening. I just use a small net, as my vaccume (Eheim) typically gets overwhelmed and clogged within a minute.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_MGfznEsT6tU/TCS9h6idypI/AAAAAAAAAPw/q8ZGSSpdDkg/photo.JPG
Typical poops generated from 5 fish in the morning. I also use this bowl to transport these fish during complete WC. It's a good size bowl since I can put all fish in there.

[Virginia ranchu]

One thing that I do to maintain good water quality is scooping out poops every morning and evening. I just use a small net, as my vaccume (Eheim) typically gets overwhelmed and clogged within a minute.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_MGfznEsT6tU/TCS9h6idypI/AAAAAAAAAPw/q8ZGSSpdDkg/photo.JPG
Typical poops generated from 5 fish in the morning. I also use this bowl to transport these fish during complete WC. It's a good size bowl since I can put all fish in there.

Now we've seen everything:lol:

[johnatoranchu]

Are different techniques used when you keep fish for breeding purposes versus showing?

Example, TVR generally accepted should not be kept in more than 12 inches of water. Is that for show fish or all fish? Could you keep breeders in say a standard 20 inch deep tank?

I am not sure what other grooming techniques are used by people who show fish or other varieties? Temperatures, indoors vs. outdoors, feeding, water depths, size of tank/pond, etc?

Please share what works and doesn't for you if you goal is breeding vs. showing or the other way around.

Thanks,
Chris

The best fish for breeding and show are not necessarily the same and it's the ability to select the best fish for breeding which seperates the "men from the boys". Easiest way to describe the difference, regardless of variety, is that show fish - HEAD, BODY, FINNAGE, SPECIAL VARIETAL CHARACTERISTICS - MUST BE IN BALANCE. A breeding/seed fish does not need to be in balance, indeed ideally it should be generally OK/good in all areas but excell in one. For example, in Ranchu a seed fish might have an extra thick peduncle, or exceptional hood development, or an overly large tail. These individual features would spoil the balance of a show fish. Fish selected for breeding should be kept relatively small, 4 - 5 inch body or even slightly smaller is ideal, and slim. Large, fat fish seldom make good breeders whereas small slim females will still carry more eggs than you know what to do with and small slim males make virile chasers.
John