Bringing Veil to Show

[small_ranchu]

I am just curious who is bring Veil to the Show. And if you are about to put Veil into show, I would like to suggest to push for separate class instead of putting them together with Ryu or Fantail. If you don't see Veil class in the show, you should contact chairman of the show or Pete Ponzio for separate Veil class. :exact:

[nygold]

If your going to start separating why stop at Veils?
Ryukin, Fantail, and Veiltail should all be separated.
Just my opinion that's all.

[small_ranchu]

In most of the show, Ryu and Fan has their own class. But they use to put Veil under those two and ..... :(

[BruceP]

I believe the sponsoring club decides the classes. I had planned to discuss this with Peter this weekend in Louisville anyway so I'll bring up the veil issue. Problem is with the veils is that there usually arent any at the shows and you can't expect a club to buy a trophy with no participation. We have no Veils to show........ YET ..... :exact:

[bigbettadan]

I can bring you a few youngsters Bruce, to Indy....


This is a twofold issue. While LV will not Seperate classes, I know other shows will, at least for TVRs and have an "other" class. I will personally enter Veils that way...

On the combo classes, a good judge will judge the fish to their standard, the one closest wins. With Peter and I judging LV, your Veils will get a fair shake no matter what class they are in....

Ryukins do well at shows because they are commerically common and easy to raise. But I have seen lots of them with faults that are glossed over. Thats a judging issue. A good judge should not fault a Veil(or a good fantail for that matter) for not having a "hump" just because they are in a combo class. They are not supposed to! We need knowledgable breeders to dig in and become a judge. That will be a step foreword............

Dan

[nygold]

Ryukins do well at shows because they are commerically common and easy to raise. But I have seen lots of them with faults that are glossed over. Thats a judging issue. A good judge should not fault a Veil(or a good fantail for that matter) for not having a "hump" just because they are in a combo class. They are not supposed to! We need knowledgable breeders to dig in and become a judge. That will be a step foreword............


It seem like if someone enters a Ryukin and it doesn't have a hump it may make a better Fantail and get judges as such. So in the end it may beat out an actual Ryukin with a so so hump because it falls into the fantail class.
While I agree some what with what you said about Ryukin being commercially common GOOD Ryukin are not. Especially if your like me and don't get fish through a specialty online fish store.(Yet). As for fantails you can go to any LFS and look into any tank marked "Ryukin" and find nice fantails. I guess these fish are basically "humpless" Ryukins.

[bigbettadan]

Actually good fantails are scarce.... Most "fantails" sold locally are just cull ryukins... Go to the British sites to see examples of good fantails... A fantail has a different body/head then Ryukins. Thats why good fantails are good for Veil crossing...

Dan

[nygold]

So then it comes down to what costs you more points at the show a Ryukin with no hump or a Fantail with a bad head.
I don't want you to think I'm trying to break your stones Dan I'm just trying to make sense of all this.

[bigbettadan]

Fantails also have a longer egg shaped body/fin type than ryukins.... Fantails are good tough breed and deserve some respect in the goldfish world. Gary has a nice group of Calico fans. I hope some breeders take a interest in them.

Dan

[bigbettadan]

This link has some good examples of Fantails if you click on the breed.

http://www.bristol-aquarists.org.uk/goldfish/goldfish.htm

I also have a GSGB e newsletter I can send you with a great Fantail article if you wish.......


Dan

[nygold]

Thanks for the link Dan.
I have seen them before I etched the red/white one in my brain and I use that fish as a guage to look for good Fantails.

[bigbettadan]

Yea, that one is my favorite too!

Dan

[BruceP]

Dan... We'll talk about vt's Sat. and I have wakin that I can bring to indy for you. We'll have no VT's this weekend tho so its a non issue for this show for us anyway.

I dont think alot of people understand that they can show breeds that are not in a class by themselves. Single Tail Other is a good example: if you have a single tail fish it can go in that class and whatever breed it is it will be judged to the standards of the breed. Other single tailed fish in that same class but a different breed will be judged to the standards of whatever it is. The one that comes closest to meeting the standards of it's breed wins. So technically, there is a class for ALL goldfish.

[bigbettadan]

Sure thing. I will be sorting thru those Blue Veil young when I get back from Louisville, so I should have a few to spare.

Dan

[afertuna]

The thing is the points in the standard when looking at the viel vs the fan or the Ryukin. The main focus is on the body and head type of the ryukin and the fan where the main focus is on the finnage of the veil. Plus there have been tons of the fans and ryukins in the shows for the judges to recognise and develope the stanard in their head. where there has not been any veils for years in the shows. so when comparing a veil to a ryukin well lets just say apples to ornanges. Dan I am glad that you would give the veil a chance to be judged fairly. I would love to be a judge but I was told that I wouldnt be able to do that if I was breeding and selling some of the fry due to ethical reasons in the AGA. I was a hedgehog judge and I was almost a APA judge (American poultry assosciation) and a candidate judge in the ARBA.
Allen

[bigbettadan]

Hmm.... I thought that would only apply to commerical breeders?

ARBA huh? Now there is red tape....LOL

[afertuna]

yup in in 1990 lots of red tape LOL