Please help! Is it the water?

[FishyThingy]

I have two Goldfish in a 30 gal tank. The tank is aerated and heated to 75 F due to coldness of the room. The filter can handle 50 gals. I change 1/3 the of the water biweekly, typically adding dechlorinator (Prime) and sometimes adding bacteria (Stability) (typically when changing more than 1/3 of the water). The filter is changed at least once a month, and the fish are fed every other day.

The fish frequently lie on the bottom of the tank with clamped fins. I've tried everything from frozen peas, aquarium salt, Quick Cure, and anti-fungal/anti-bacterial medications, but nothing seemed to work. (I have a veritable goldfish pharmacy in my bedroom.) I've explained the problem to staff at the local pet shore (Fish Doctors) but no to avail.

Here is the really baffling part. When the fish get really ill, I take them out of the 30 gal tank (which contains gravel, a plastic faux hollow log, and some plastic faux plants) and put them in a 10 gal tank (which contains nothing but a heater and a 10 gal filter). The fish do just fine in the smaller 10 gal tank with simple routine care and maintenance. However, every time I put the fish back on the 30 gal tank, problems usually arise within the first several days and invariably arise within the first week.

Having reached my wits end as a newby, last weekend I sat down and studied the nitrogen cycle (which I should have done long ago). I had previously tested the water only for ph and ammonia and not nitrites or nitrates. At first, the nitrates were on the higher end 30 mg/L and the ph was a bit low 6.4. But after monitoring the water each day for a week and doing 2 water changes, the nitrates are about 10 mg/L and the ph is at 7.2. The ammonia and nitrites are 0.

What am I missing here? The only thing I can thing of is that there may be something wrong with the 30 gal tank. Is it possible that the tank is somehow contaminated? I received the tank from a friend whose fish had died in the tank. The Fish Doctors dismiss this idea, but people online seem to think that it could be a problem. How common is tank contamination? Other than keeping the fish in the 10 gal tank, what can I do to remedy this problem?

I want to stabilize the environment so that these fish can enjoy their lives, which has been hell. I feel like a bad pet owner, and if these fish die at my hands, I will feel like real crap. I would truly appreciate any advice that anyone here is willing to share. Thanks.

[bekko]

Try treating for flukes and getting rid of the gravel.

-steve

[suphi]

When fish is sick it almost always started with water quality issue. May be you should try more water change also.

If you provide fresh clean water regluarly, fish will rarely get sick. Prevention is important because you can always do it. Treatment, on the other hand, will not always be successful.

[small_ranchu]

Agree with suphi, how about doing 50% or more water change instead of 1/3. When you do water change, make sure water temperature is the same.
For PH, you can put a small bag of coral chip in your filter box.

Whatesle do you have inside 30g tank beside fish, airstone and filter?

[BruceP]

Some declorinators with cause plastic decorations to leach harmful chemicals!!!
Get the plastic junk out of the tank.
And gravel just gives nasty stuff a place to breed; not to mention the goldies choking on the gravel.

by the way... WELCOME!!!! :)

[Cincy Ranchu]

Ok

On the internet there is alawys a tnedency to get bunchs of advise and then the fishkeeprs picks and chooses.

Remove gravel and ornaments.
Cleaner water
treat for flukes


You can't pick and choose and rememebr when you treat for flukes you must treat several times over three weeks to break the cycle.

Next on your list will be to treat for costia after you have eliminated the water and fluke issue

[FishyThingy]

I had contemplated doing larger water changes more frequently, but I assumed having to do so much to mantain the fish was merely indicative of a problem, bot a solution.

I mentioned coral chip to the pet store guy, but he told me that it was an extreme measure that no one does. I will try it, but doesn't this only increase the ph?

The only thing in the tank is gravel, a fake plstic log, and a fake plastic plant.

Thanks for your advice. I am learning a lot.

[FishyThingy]

Thank you, BruceP. I will take these out, but what should I use insead of gravel and what decorations can I use that they wil not eat? Thanks again.

[FishyThingy]

I will execute your instructions faithfully, but as I asked BruceP, what should I use insead of gravel and what decorations can I use that the fish will not eat?

What chemical/brand name should I use for the flukes and costia?

Thanks!

[Cincy Ranchu]

I don't use gravel except for one show tank ( 2/84). I typicaLLY PLANY LIVE PLANTS IN SMALL TUPPERWARE TUBS AND PLACE IN THE TANK. fOR LIVE PLANTS i LIKE anubias as the fish do not eat it and it works with spiral flourencencs

For flukes I use Trichlorocide or prazi (prazi is easiest)
For costia I use salt and formalin ( or quick cure) in combination. I have aslo used potassium permangenate

[small_ranchu]

For decoration, I only use background wall paper. I still don't have luck with pebble, gravel anything.

Coral chip with raise the PH level to 7.9 and keep is stable.

[Jed]

For decorations, I like using the mexican beach pebbles. I like to scatter a few around so waste doesn't get trap in between them. I've been trying to look for the giant ones. Just haven't had time to look on line for them.

[FishyThingy]

Please forgive me if this is obtuse, but I assume 7.9 ph is good for goldfish? What is the optimum ph?

[FishyThingy]

What medium do you plant the anubias in? Gravel? Sand? Soil?

What are the symptoms for flukes?

Again, thanks for your help.

[small_ranchu]

Please forgive me if this is obtuse, but I assume 7.9 ph is good for goldfish? What is the optimum ph?
7.9 is good. Goldfish need stable PH.

What medium do you plant the anubias in? Gravel? Sand? Soil?

For Anubias, you cannot plant in gravel, sand or soil. The best is tie it to some big rock which don't have sharp edge.

[FishyThingy]

What about sponge filters? Do I simply replace the charcoal filter with a sponge, or must I purchase a special sponge filter system?

[small_ranchu]

We don't use charcoal in our filter unless you want to remove chemical from system.

Are you talking about sponge in the filter or sponge filter system? Here is the link to sponge filter system.
http://www.kensfish.com/aticompletefilters.html

I prefer ATI HYDRO SPONGE PRO FILTERS.

[BruceP]

We use large stones about 1-2" size scattered about the bottom. Not covering the bottom, just some to give the bottom some dimension. For decoration, IF we use anything it is cast or wood (wood for the bristol nosed plecs), not plastic.

[MattD]

Does anyone else see the issue with changing the filter? I rarely ever change mine!! That's where all the beneficial bacteria is that helps keep the tank params stable. If you're changing a filter every month, it is highly unlikely that your tank is ever stable and not going through a cycle with dangerous ammonia and nitrite levels.

Instead of changing the filter just wash it off gently with old tank water at water changes to clean off all the extra debris.

Just my 2 cents as a newbie to this forum.

[small_ranchu]

Does anyone else see the issue with changing the filter? I rarely ever change mine!! That's where all the beneficial bacteria is that helps keep the tank params stable. If you're changing a filter every month, it is highly unlikely that your tank is ever stable and not going through a cycle with dangerous ammonia and nitrite levels.

Instead of changing the filter just wash it off gently with old tank water at water changes to clean off all the extra debris.

Just my 2 cents as a newbie to this forum.

good advise. and welcomed to GFK... >:D<

[Virginia ranchu]

I agree with Matt! At most, rinse the filter sponge/pad in the removed aquarium water when you do your water changes, but don't change it completely.

The fact that your fish seem to be better when you move them to the 10 gallon tank seems to point to the water quality. If the problem is water quality, changing a third of the water won't likely improve conditions very much. Maybe try a 90% water change and see what happens.

Cheers,

Rob

[johnatoranchu]

One of the problems with asking questions is that answers differ. My answers often differ from everyone elses but I think you've answered your own question. Always consider the most obvious first, its usually right.
Consider the facts as stated.
Friend's fish die. Friend gives you the tank. Your fish are poorly when in this tank. You put your fish into another tank and they are OK. Conclusion, well to my simple mind it seems obvious - there is something radically wrong with the tank or the stuff in.
The Tank - questions - was it homemade? If second hand glass was used, it could have been treated with a special film to prevent something or another which is toxic to fish. One of my friends had this experience many years ago. We never did find out the name of the substance used but the only solution in the end was to destroy the tank.
If the tank was homemade was aquatic sealant used? Some cheaper sealants obtained from hardware stores are toxic to fish.
Has the tank been repaired? Which sealant was used?
Suggested plan of action. Thoroughly clean and dry both tanks. Set up large and small tank. Large tank must not contain anything other than fresh dechlorinated water and new airstone which could also power a new sponge filter if you wish.
Set up the small tank with fresh dechlorinated water AND ALL THE FILTERS, PLASTIC PLANTS ETC., ETC. which were previously in the large tank. Split your fish between the two tanks. Undertake twice weekly 30% water changes and WATCH THE FISH. Don't medicate or test, JUST WATCH. If the fish in one of the tanks become/remain poorly and the ones in the other are fine then you now what the problem is, that is either it's the large tank itself or its the various bits and pieces you had in it. Hopefully the solution will be this simple!!!!l
John