My TVR Kudo, Jinchu, Mita

[small_ranchu]

What do you think?

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/smallranchu/ranchu/20100104/th_DSCN1217.jpg (http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/smallranchu/ranchu/20100104/?action=view&current=DSCN1217.flv)

[bigbettadan]

Is that my Mita boy? Great grooming job. He has come around. I am very impressed!

Dan

[suphi]

You sure know how to feed these guys, Fred.

[small_ranchu]

Am I overfeed?

[bigbettadan]

I would not say so.....

Dan

[BruceP]

Fred... Do you need my address so you can cull them out to me? :) VERY nice job!! :)

[bigbettadan]

Here is that Mita male before he got him from me in July....
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww151/bigbettadan/Mita2.jpg

See what some TLC can do........

Dan

[Mikey V]

They look great!
I am fattening up my lionheads right now...hopefully they'll look like this in a few months!
And my understanding has always been that as long as you keep the water clean, feed good quality food in several small feedings, and watch for swim bladder problems you should be fine. If the fish are full, they'll stop eating. Most problems come from poor water quality due to fish waste and uneaten food

[small_ranchu]

True.. It is the best if you can do daily water change.

[Jed]

I'm still soaking up all the knowledge I can on these guys, however, I do have a question. How many times a day should they be fed? Also, it appears that these guys are a little "chubby". Please correct me if I'm wrong. I just don't know. Thanks.

[bigbettadan]

The Mita is a tad chubby yes, but not outragous. I feed 3 times a day(young and non winter months). But more is better. Keep in mind, the more you feed, the higher water quality demands(more water changes). Also, food quality is as important as quantity..........

Dan

[small_ranchu]

I am doing heavy feeding which mean feeding 6-8 times a day with small amount of food(1 min feeding).
In the mean time, you need to do more water change. 80% change for every 2 to 3 days and 100% change every week.

I also feel they are over weight.

[Jed]

Fred, they love to see you coming! lol

BTW...I would love to see a side view of these guys. Just curious!

[suphi]

Fred, the only fish that I think is too fat is the large red. Other ones look pretty good to me.

[bigbettadan]

Yes, the Mita is the All red....... But he is a Oya now too so he should fill at that that age........... but yes he is chubby.
Dan

[small_ranchu]

More video during water change...

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[Jed]

The more I see these guys, I am definitely falling in love with them.

Dan, I truly get it!!! :yess:

[small_ranchu]

me too, the more I look at them, I want strong fish instead of fat cuties.

[bigbettadan]

LOL, its like wine, we start with wine coolers, but grow into Merlots.......
Dan

[suphi]

It's an acquired taste, I guess...

[Cincy Ranchu]

Fred,

I think you are doing a great job, the Jinchu fish are similar to mine, the red and white is particularly nice===more bloodworm:exact:

[small_ranchu]

Thanks Gary, I (or we) need to live next to bloodworm farm. :)

[suphi]

Is the other large red (orange) from Paul/Boss Ranchu? The profile (wen and tail set) looks like a Kudo, maybe my fish's sibling?

[small_ranchu]

Yes, it's a Kudo from Boss Ranchu.

[bigbettadan]

Is it a female? You could try it on the Mita male......... He was very fertile for me...

Dan

[small_ranchu]

Fred, they love to see you coming! lol

BTW...I would love to see a side view of these guys. Just curious!

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[bigbettadan]

Those are just the young Jinchu Kai, correct? The one white might have too severe a back imperfection to make the cut.....:youtellme:

Dan

[small_ranchu]

I guess it is true. I will take top view video next day to discuss in detail.

Can we make a decision on penduncle yet? The other white one has very thin penduncle for my eyes.

[bigbettadan]

Yea, but peduncle will still have some filling out to do too.....

Thats the challenge with TVR.... after you get past the tail/peduncle, you have to still look at back curve, body, and head/hood. Lots of details..

Dan

[bigbettadan]

Oh, I just had to cull one of its siblings for a back curve problem....

Dan

[small_ranchu]

Yea, but peduncle will still have some filling out to do too.....
Dan

How do we do that? :)

[bigbettadan]

Keep feeding and be patient.
Dan

[Jed]

Fred,

Thanks a lot for that video clip! These guys are truly awesome! My money will be going to TVR in the future!!!

BTW...I think they are just as beautiful from the side.

[small_ranchu]

My money will be going to TVR in the future!!!


Be careful.. lolz

[bigbettadan]

Sounds like his hooked to me! LOL

Dan

[Jed]

Guys, I was just checking Paul's site for TVR and I cannot afford them. Please tell me I can get them cheaper?

[small_ranchu]

Call him up. He might give you some discount.

[suphi]

Jed, wait for the imported black baby or color baby in a month or two. These should be much more reasonably priced. The catch is that you don't know how well they're going to turn out.

The big ones are expensive because they're show-grade and had been through numerous cullings (Paul had a 40% off sales over the holidays, btw).

Price is one of the reasons why TVR has a limited market.

[bigbettadan]

If you are patient, I should have some available this spring... I am not worried about money, just developing the hobby.....

Dan

[Jed]

Guys, I really didn't want babies, but it would be interesting to see how well I can groom them. In the meantime, I will take Dan's offer and wait until spring to get some from him. Also, it wouldn't hurt to talk to Paul.

[bigbettadan]

Yea, check with Paul..... Plus in fall some breeders will be replaced with young fish.....

Dan

[small_ranchu]

I am not worried about money, just developing the hobby.....

This is one of our goal :yess:

[BruceP]

This is one of our goal :yess:



I sure hope so cuz I can't spend four bills a fish to get started breeding TVR. I may have some trading material by spring tho :)

[small_ranchu]

come to breeder social then. :)

[bigbettadan]

Goldfish are for sharing! Hopefully I have lots of young to share this summer.

Dan

[Jed]

Goldfish are for sharing! Hopefully I have lots of young to share this summer.

Dan


Sharing? What a beautiful word! :exact:

Do you have to be a breeder to come to the breeder circle?

[bigbettadan]

Email Gary.........

D

[Jed]

Email Gary.........

D


I know what that means. lol

[suphi]

If I got spawns in the future I'd definitely share. The two good ones I have right now are unfortunately male. My red head should be a good seeder since he's got a nice long body and decent funtan.

[bigbettadan]

What about your Itohs, any females?

Dan

[suphi]

Dan, still can't tell as they don't grow much and might be stunted...probably won't make good seeders anyway (nice back and tail but not so much wen). I might move them out of SVR tank when I get a new tub to see if they will grow faster, but I should probably get a nice large female from Paul for breeding purpose.

[bigbettadan]

I would be interested in them, maybe they just need to outdoors for grow out of wen. I could grow them out and send you a female back if they come around.

[suphi]

Dan, I'll keep that in mind. If I buy more than a few fish in March/April then I may have to ship these guys to you as I would have no place to keep em.

I do plan to get them outdoor with my big boys when it gets warmer and when the tub comes in.

[small_ranchu]

Time for WC again...

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[bigbettadan]

Stop it, you are making me miss my Mita boy......LOL

Dan

[judge]

Time for WC again...

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Do you have a side view pic of those fish?

[small_ranchu]

I will take it when I get home

[small_ranchu]

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[bigbettadan]

He is tubby these days........LOL

Dan

[suphi]

The Red-orange Kudo is my fav, love the back. You never scrub the tank, I guess.

[small_ranchu]

You never scrub the tank, I guess.

Should I? lol

[suphi]

Nah, I think your fish are turning out very nice. Probably better for the fish this way.

[small_ranchu]

Another update for this week.

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suggestion? any difference from last video?

[suphi]

They look no diff to me.

I'm getting some positive results with my Itoh that got moved to TVR tank for power feeding. He appears to be growing quite a bit. Going to wait for a full month before I post new pics/vids.

It's still too cold to move fish outside, grrr, 7 degree this morning. At this rate, it's gonna be April before I can do it.

[small_ranchu]

Update of my big fish
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[suphi]

Your red one is turning white?

[small_ranchu]

yes. dont know why :(

[suphi]

Can't help you there. I thought red fish usually don't turn white later on. Well I had the opposite problem--my RW (Ruby) was turning red, but I think it had something to do with color-enhancing food.

[small_ranchu]

Suphi, What food are you using?

[suphi]

Right now mixed Saki green + purple, around 75/25. I only have 1 bag of Saki green left so I'm trying to prolong its use by mixing with some purple.

[Ranchufan16]

@suphi, where do you get your food...and again forgive my ignorance, I have always only feed frozen or freeze dried foods, but what is the make up of the food you are feeding? Thanks!!

[suphi]

I buy the purple Saki Hikari from online vendors like Amazon.com
For the green Saki Hikari, I either buy from Paul or have my parents/in-laws carry from Thailand when they visit us.

Saki Hikari Goldfish is consider mid-tier among ranchu hobbyists in Asia but probably the most widely used one. Higher-tier pellet food includes brands like Ranchulord, Chanko, etc. which are more expensive.

[Ranchufan16]

Thanks Suphi, I will check these foods out, I found a couple on Ebay, but I will check Amazon too. Hope to see you this weekend at the social via "online chat"!

[sanggarra]

LOL! Suphi,
I'm doing exactly same. I asked my bro-in-law to carry some back when he visits Malaysia in Oct.

Have you tried the new Saki red?

[suphi]

Haven't tried the red, although I know a lot of breeders bypass purple and use red + green combo. The red one has even more color-enhancing properties than the purple.

[sanggarra]

I am getting a small bag to try. Hopefully it won't turn my r/w fish yellow red.. :P

I talked to a vendor in Malaysia and he confirmed that with too much long term Saki Purple feeding, they do see your problem of making white part of fish turn yellow.

[small_ranchu]

Update on 2011, January

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlsuckYRQQk

RlsuckYRQQk

[small_ranchu]

Feeding time...

After starve them for 2 weeks...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qoaRnURXOo

-qoaRnURXOo

[VeiltailGuy]

Any luck breeding these Fred?:youtellme:

[small_ranchu]

Unfortunately, no.. They are not chasing after two weeks fo starving and stressing them.

[frankalank]

Unfortunately, no.. They are not chasing after two weeks fo starving and stressing them.

I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I was curious, why did yo starve them for two weeks? If you did it to get them to breed, did you also lower the temp?
In my experience, just lowering the temp about five degrees for three weeks and then power feeding for a few weeks get them chasing, so maybe you can still get them going if you feed heavily for a few weeks (fingers crossed because you have some nice ones there!). Although I should say I haven't done this with Ranchus yet.
Very Respectfully,
Frank

[Cincy Ranchu]

I buy the purple Saki Hikari from online vendors like Amazon.com
For the green Saki Hikari, I either buy from Paul or have my parents/in-laws carry from Thailand when they visit us.

Saki Hikari Goldfish is consider mid-tier among ranchu hobbyists in Asia but probably the most widely used one. Higher-tier pellet food includes brands like Ranchulord, Chanko, etc. which are more expensive.

Anybody using the advanced feeds and where do you get them?

[suphi]

Paul is the only one I know of with access to these foods. Boss, for example, uses only Chanko with his fish.

I also use my own special diet--Stop&Shop Hotdogs. They go crazy for a long time afterward, lol. Use it at your own risk though.

[GlassGoldfish]

Anybody using the advanced feeds and where do you get them?

http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.php?automodule=purchase&catid=2

I have ordered from here, it was afew years ago. I ordered the Japan Ranchu Lord and The Sake and he gave me afew sample packs of the chroma- its very crunchy and dry feeling, for whatever thats worth, floating too. It was fast delivery, quicker that UPS ground from east to west coast... I like the JRL alot and I think the Saki is really good too.

[GlassGoldfish]

Whooops! I just saw that everything at RafflesGold Store is out-of-stock!! Sorry! Might be worth an inquiry, tho.

[small_ranchu]

I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I was curious, why did yo starve them for two weeks? If you did it to get them to breed, did you also lower the temp?
In my experience, just lowering the temp about five degrees for three weeks and then power feeding for a few weeks get them chasing, so maybe you can still get them going if you feed heavily for a few weeks (fingers crossed because you have some nice ones there!). Although I should say I haven't done this with Ranchus yet.
Very Respectfully,
Frank

They live indoor and very difficult to lower the temp. No budget for chiller and doesn't have any extra space until I move to new place.

I just try to simulate winter by stop feeding them for 2 weeks at 68 degree. :youtellme:

[Cincy Ranchu]

Can't you get mom to float 6 ice cubes in the tank every hour and when you come home you could continue, LOL

Remember, former BBR that are now Tosai and have never spawned do not need chilling, they just mature and go!

[judge]

They live indoor and very difficult to lower the temp. No budget for chiller and doesn't have any extra space until I move to new place.

I just try to simulate winter by stop feeding them for 2 weeks at 68 degree. :youtellme:

Change water everyday with cold water from your tap. You tap water should be high 40s to mid 50s at this time I believe. Adjust with hot water to get your ideal temp and keep on changing water....

Change diet.... Like for instance if you are feeding saki all the time you feed them large amount of boiled and peeled green peas not just one time, feed repeatedly while playing Frank Sinatra.. This should stir up the romance....

If this doesn't stir up the romance there is something seriously wrong with your fishies' and you might have to send them to San Francisco.... :D

Or take Gary's advice. ha ha ha... >:)

[fastrails]

Pardon my ingorance, if I am keeping them in the garage. It sometimes drops to the low 40's in San Francisco, but mostly in low 50's in winter time. Should I run a heater? Thanks in advance.




Change water everyday with cold water from your tap. You tap water should be high 40s to mid 50s at this time I believe. Adjust with hot water to get your ideal temp and keep on changing water....

Change diet.... Like for instance if you are feeding saki all the time you feed them large amount of boiled and peeled green peas not just one time, feed repeatedly while playing Frank Sinatra.. This should stir up the romance....

If this doesn't stir up the romance there is something seriously wrong with your fishies' and you might have to send them to San Francisco.... :D

Or take Gary's advice. ha ha ha... >:)

[frankalank]

Pardon my ingorance, if I am keeping them in the garage. It sometimes drop to the low 40's in San Francisco, but mostly in low 50's in winter time. Should I run a heater? Thanks in advance.

Depends on what you are keeping and trying to achieve. That post was intended at someone trying to breed, so if you want to breed them then just wait and as your days get warmer your fish will naturally get in the mood.
If you are grooming fish that are still developing I recommend getting a heater, as you can benefit from faster metabolism and constant temperature. Hope that helps, if you have more questions, feel free to PM me.
Very Respectfully,
Frank

[Cincy Ranchu]

They live indoor and very difficult to lower the temp. No budget for chiller and doesn't have any extra space until I move to new place.

I just try to simulate winter by stop feeding them for 2 weeks at 68 degree. :youtellme:

I think I would decrease the volume of food and the number of water changes. Then when the next full moon rolls in I would change water and dose heavily with Adult frozen brine shrimp. This is how I got the Itohs that bred last Septemebr to go again last week. Two more females are ready, I just have to get home and give them the magic treatment:exact:

[opera]

It is always good to get people opinions. I am thinking that you can combine suggestion of Gary and Judge. For the first daily water change, Just float ice during day time to make the water temperature cold and when you come back from work, change from tap water. So you do not need worry about temperature matching. Then, if daily water change would keep the temperature cold, that is good. If not, the same routine would be executed everyday until they spawn.

[small_ranchu]

Feeding time....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qoaRnURXOo

-qoaRnURXOo

[kendal]

fred,

are you heating the water? if not how is it 68? what temp is your air? in my unheated water in the basement which is 60F at night and 68 in the day the water is low 50's. if your apartment is 68-72, i would think you water would naturally be low 60's.

don't know if i have given my two bits on indoor breeding to you before or not. if so i apologies.

stop feeding. clean out tub after poop stops, add salt, take out heat and turn off lights (cover if you have to). dark, cold, hungry, stale water. monitor your water but only change if you need to. do this as long as you can hold out. when you have a good storm coming get ready. the day before give them live worms. until they wont eat any more. FBW would be my second choice or even egg. high animal protein. live worms wont foul water if left uneaten. i think the live food stimulates them. then do a huge water change or two that evening. i like to do it with the fin in the tub by draining until they are on their sides and stressed—nothing inspires survival of the species like fear of personal demise. bring water back slowly to prolong stress. use cold water out of the tap, not seasoned or warmed. add slowly enough to not shock them but they need to feel a drop in temps. once they are swimming you can just fill the rest up as fast as you want, but a drip line is nice to simulate rain. i also put in some dirt (simulate flooding). keep worms present at all times and drop in a heater. if they don't spawn keep doing the worm feeding and daily water changes until storm system passes. if they don't spawn cover back up,remove heater, salt and don't feed until next storm and repeat. if it does not work, yell at them and drop them of in Chelsea.

for ranchu this works for me about half the time. for tosakin i have done as well as 100% for 6 spawn one year. i can get my water pretty cold though.

good luck. i know your frustration. when you find something that works, it will be worth the wait. i think it is funny how we all have tricks that work for us, but never anyone else.

[kendal]

what happened to the orange scale? is it fading? i love white fish.

[small_ranchu]

I am feeding them bloodworm everyday and waiting for storm after strom. We have snow storm every week now-a-day. Lets see what happen..

True, orange scale went away for some strange reason.

[small_ranchu]

They are in hibernation for a month (ie no food no water change) and they are still in good shape.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjnxcesvKNI

AjnxcesvKNI

[Cincy Ranchu]

Hibernation is best for 8 weeks, if Tosai less is acceptable.

[small_ranchu]

It's almost 8 weeks starting from the third week of Feb. Water Temp is at 53 now and as soon as it reach above 65, i will start the breeding project.


What happen if you hibernate fish for more than 8 weeks?

[East Ozeki Ranchu]

Fred,

My Ranchu have 12 weeks minimum - no feeding, no water changes.

Temperatures are at 39 for many weeks.

This year I stopped feeding in October (Mid October) and began feeding again in Mid February. In my experience longer is better.

Regards

Andrew

[small_ranchu]

Thanks Andrew.

I have to prepare becoz I am preparing to hibernate more starting from next year.

The whole winter, I don't need to do anything for fish except theoritical discusion in forum. wow.

[bigbettadan]

Mine started in Nov thru mid Feb.

Its nice to have the little break... It kinda recharges your fish batteries..

Dan

[CStufft]

Mine started in Nov thru mid Feb.

Its nice to have the little break... It kinda recharges your fish batteries..

Dan

Enjoy the break, because once you get the spawn.....it feels like it is constantly time to hatch the shrimp, change the water.....repeat, repeat, repeat....:)

Chris

[small_ranchu]

Its nice to have the little break... It kinda recharges your fish batteries..

Dan

or you can work on other hobby at that time.. :yess:

[bigbettadan]

Yuppers, works well with the winter pigeon show schedule...LOL

Dan

[small_ranchu]

Here is an update of my fish in the tub...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1jOZHFljds


l1jOZHFljds

[small_ranchu]

one more

xlMsiyBcn3g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlMsiyBcn3g

[devins23]

Very nice! I like the all-white fish. Are they all the same age?

[small_ranchu]

Dave, some of them are Nisai and some of them(two white one) are Oya.

I haven't update for a while...

xsE26ulqNj0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsE26ulqNj0

[kendal]

i love the white fella. thanks for the vids.