2010 Breeding Goals

[Cincy Ranchu]

all,
As the breeding is on us and it is the new year, it is now time to make a list of spawning goals.

Any takers???

[bigbettadan]

Early spring....
Itoh/Kudo ranchu spawn
Suguria/Kudo ranchu spawn
possible spawn between the two seed groups

Summer/fall
work on Jinchu Kai ranchu
a halfmoon shubukin project, if I can find the right seed fish.


Dan

[thomasn]

calico crown pearlscale :)

[Virginia ranchu]

Matsuyama ranchu and calico oranda

[Cincy Ranchu]

Veiltail Improvement - 1 spawn hatched by Doug Wolf already.
2 Blue Veiltail crosses
Itoh Ranchu X2
Matsuyama Ranchu
Hamamatsu Ranchu
Bristolsls - 3 lines
Midnights
Calico Broadtails
Hamanashiki - Tai line
Jinchu line in fall
Blue Oranda X Veiltails
F-2 Midnight X Bristols cross
Fantails X Veiltails and Fantail X itself
EDONISHIKI Line

[afertuna]

Veil veil veils!!!!!
Blue oranda X Thomma veil cross
Double Bristols
Bristols
Veil tail Black Moores,Blues and red and whites
globe eyes and butterflies
Moore X Bristol f2 outcross ( So far rootbeer colored)
And what ever decides to get frisky

[goldfishin]

Improved veils - 2 new spawns 10 days old
bristols red with black speckles ready to hatch
f2 midnight x bristols
veil black moors
orandas
Bristols

[Cincy Ranchu]

Cool , many veil activities here ready fir the season!

1.25" on the originals for 10'

[afnaveils]

1) Bristols - breed them from my 3 disaster survivors - 120 - 2 weeks fry swimming and lively

2) Phoenix - A MUST!!:me:

3) Veiltails - Phillies to Broadtail ryukins

4) Naitoh ranchus

5) Monden ranchus

6) Any others who want to go at it (Harris 'blue ranchus', Broadtail moors, Shukins, Broadtail ryukins)

[Bristolfisher]

Bristols 2 lines
broadtail moors
BEP

[harzan]

My, my, my...so many of us are so ambitious this year!>:)>:)>:)


For me.....

Blue Shukin/BEP
Nankin
Ranchu
Sakuranishiki

[Ranchu Rancher]

As of this morning I can say I an breeding SVR. (got eggs).:yess:


Gregg

[Tedster]

Hopefully, all my goldfish survive as I move across the country in January. Here is my breeding/project list for 2010.

1) Tosakin
2) Jikin
3) Crown Pearlscale
4) Bristol Shubunkin
5) Ranchu
6) Canakin (Maple Leaf Tail)

Ted

[Guenther]

WAKIN - if I can get them:

Calico WAKIN

-

[Sabine]

Among my tsugaru nishiki offspring is one nice male ranchu - I hope to cross him with my sakura ranchu female. She is 3 years old now but has never spawned, so I may just be out of luck if I can't get her to spawn.

[afertuna]

Well I have those goals but the fish have the final decision LOL. The blue Thai Orndas I have finally spawned today.... I was hoping they would hold off till I could move the Thoma veil over to them ohwell when nature calls I geuss.

[harzan]

This site is one great place to be thanksful for this year, next, and hopefully many more. It is so nice to know there are other people out there as enthusiastic (a nice word for NUTS!) about goldfish as most of us here are.

I guess the fun has begun...but a little longer break would have nice too. I look forward to all the pics to come from all the spawns!

[Cincy Ranchu]

Massive chasing today, but the females are not quite ready. Nice to have them chasing as they approach a year old, this line tends to wait until year 2 when they move towrds inbreeding... This is the Foster red line I'm talking about.:me:

[afnaveils]

I'm glad to hear that someone other than Al is breeding the Foster's line on this site. That's great Gary!

[afertuna]

I think all of us have foster line I know the ones I call Hater( bred by Gary) line are from Foster stock.I have no fear of the Foster line disapearing. There are other lines though are disappearing fast like the Thomma line.

[afertuna]

This site is one great place to be thanksful for this year, next, and hopefully many more. It is so nice to know there are other people out there as enthusiastic (a nice word for NUTS!) about goldfish as most of us here are.

I guess the fun has begun...but a little longer break would have nice too. I look forward to all the pics to come from all the spawns!

Harris I agree!!!! I love the fact that I have a place to talk about Goldfish. I hate it when people look at me like I am a fool for breeding Goldfish.

[George Ludrosky]

I would love to get some fish from the Thomma line to work with. If anyone (Bluebelly?) knows where I could aquire some, I would be eternally grateful. Especially any with interesting eyes, i am definitely and eye person!

I would be willing to trade or buy.

[afertuna]

I dont know many people that have any. Peter Ponzio did say that there were some outhere going to show up soon for sale on a website I will see if I can get the details.

[Cincy Ranchu]

I would love to get some fish from the Thomma line to work with. If anyone (Bluebelly?) knows where I could aquire some, I would be eternally grateful. Especially any with interesting eyes, i am definitely and eye person!

I would be willing to trade or buy.

Do you know his kids in Cleveland? Maybe they know where they went or ended up at?

[George Ludrosky]

I knew Al Many Many years ago and have no Clue as to where his fish ended up.

[afertuna]

Veil veil veils!!!!! ( 2 spawns in the last week)
Blue oranda X Thomma veil cross (two days ago 1 spawning)
Double Bristols (Dbl tail males to single tailed females today)
Bristols
Veil tail Black Moores,Blues and red and whites
globe eyes and butterflies
Moore X Bristol f2 outcross ( So far rootbeer colored)
And what ever decides to get frisky

[Cincy Ranchu]

Five trays of hand spawned eggs;

Matsuyama X Oishi ( 3) - 12/30
Matsuyama X Itoh 12/31
Matsuyama X Matsuyama 12/31

Jikin are dancing but no real pushing yet

[bigbettadan]

Sweet, I get to cull some ranchu fry this winter!

Dan

[Cincy Ranchu]

Looks like a good hatch- coming on!:exact:

[BruceP]

I want to do some Orandas this year. So far I havent been too successful with them but I'm learning every day, most of it on this site, so I hope I can get some nice fish.
I'd also like to get into Veiltails but we don't have any so I need to learn more about them and set some goals concerning them.

[Cincy Ranchu]

I want to do some Orandas this year. So far I havent been too successful with them but I'm learning every day, most of it on this site, so I hope I can get some nice fish.
I'd also like to get into Veiltails but we don't have any so I need to learn more about them and set some goals concerning them.

The Red Cap ( Goose Head) Orandas from Rain Garden are just stunning as well as his blue Orandas. I spawned the Blues and only got about 2% with tail faults... Either of these would be great Orandas to start with. Most folks want to start with Calico's and they are the most frustrating because of the massive culling. Also some of Steve's Prandas have been in the country for several generations.....:exact:

[BruceP]

Gary, Thanx. I have two Thai orandas that are about to spawn. One is red capped and the other is mostly orange. I reeeeeeeally would like to get a good spawn from this pair. I wanted to finish with the ryukin juveniles before I did another but if they are ready I guess I'd better be too.. lol

[afnaveils]

1) Bristols - breed them from my 3 disaster survivors - 120 - 2 weeks fry swimming and lively

2) Phoenix - A MUST!!:me:

3) Veiltails - Phillies to Broadtail ryukins

4) Naitoh ranchus

5) Monden ranchus

6) Any others who want to go at it (Harris 'blue ranchus', Broadtail moors, Shukins, Broadtail ryukins)


Serving number 1: Of my December Bristol spawn, I culled about 70 %, about 40 fry looking good.
Another Bristol spawn on January 4th, fry hatching yesterday and today. About 300 fry.

Next number please ...:waiting:

[small_ranchu]

Serving number 1: Of my December Bristol spawn, I culled about 70 %, about 40 fry looking good.
Another Bristol spawn on January 4th, fry hatching yesterday and today. About 300 fry.

Next number please ...:waiting:

Congrats!!!!

[johnatoranchu]

It doesn't happen here very often but presently we have snow and whilst all my fish are inside in the fish house, they are all cold, around 39F which I think is too cold so heaters will be switched on over the weekend to raise the water temperature slowly to 45F for the rest of January then I'll gradually increase the temperature to prepare them for spawning.
All my breeding plans are therefore at the "paper" stage but my aims for 2010 are
- 6 spawnings of Ranchu. All Jinchu Kai fish but using different combinations
- 3 spawnings of Jikin. One spawning from each of my "lines" plus, if possible, a spawning between the lines
- 2 spawnings of metallic Orandas
- 1 spawning of calico Orandas
- 1 spawning of calico Oranda x calico Veiltail (the latter has a reasonable "hood"
- 1 spawning of Tosakin
- at least 1 spawning of metallic Veiltails
- 1 spawning of "experimental" calico Pearlscales with mock metallic genes
and as many "experimental" spawnings I can manage to take my "Imperials" forward.
All spawnings need to be accomplished between March and June so that the young are ready for the major shows in August and September.
I guess on paper it's easy!!!!!
John

[Cincy Ranchu]

It doesn't happen here very often but presently we have snow and whilst all my fish are inside in the fish house, they are all cold, around 39F which I think is too cold so heaters will be switched on over the weekend to raise the water temperature slowly to 45F for the rest of January then I'll gradually increase the temperature to prepare them for spawning.
All my breeding plans are therefore at the "paper" stage but my aims for 2010 are
- 6 spawnings of Ranchu. All Jinchu Kai fish but using different combinations
- 3 spawnings of Jikin. One spawning from each of my "lines" plus, if possible, a spawning between the lines
- 2 spawnings of metallic Orandas
- 1 spawning of calico Orandas
- 1 spawning of calico Oranda x calico Veiltail (the latter has a reasonable "hood"
- 1 spawning of Tosakin
- at least 1 spawning of metallic Veiltails
- 1 spawning of "experimental" calico Pearlscales with mock metallic genes
and as many "experimental" spawnings I can manage to take my "Imperials" forward.
All spawnings need to be accomplished between March and June so that the young are ready for the major shows in August and September.
I guess on paper it's easy!!!!!
John



Surely you just omitted your Bristols?

[johnatoranchu]

No Gary - I've simply got to cut down on varieties and whilst I will undoubtedly use my Bristols in various experimental spawnings, I have decided not to breed them "pure" any more although I could of course change my mind. Although they have the potential to produce winners, in order for them to maximise their potential I would need to give them far more space and attention than I am prepared to do - they would need as much room as my Ranchu do. You know how disappointed I was with my Ranchu spawnings last year and you saw how successful Andrew's were and yet our lines are the same. I have decided that for me 2010 will be the year of the Ranchu and I am determined to win East Oseki at Jinchu Kai UK's Competition in September - but don't tell Andrew!!!
John

[Cincy Ranchu]

Your plan is clear and good, good luck!

[Cincy Ranchu]

I have nine tanks of fry, mostly Ranchu, on small spawn of Bristols. Still waiting on the Monden, Itoh and recent Itoh's and the Hamatsu are outside in the barn.

My tiny veil spwn did not work, planning on rotating stuff in and out of the barn next Saturday.

Planned Cool down:
Monden, butterflies, broadtails

Planned warm up:
Veioltails
Blue Orandas
Hamatsu
and breed Bristols

Not sure what to do with Harzans blue Ranchu, they are really cool at 3.5", with nice wens.

[harzan]

What is happening????!!!

Got the following so far and is really enough....

BEP
Ranchu (Monden from Rain garden)
Calicoe Shukin
Shukin cross
Monden X Blue Ranchu ... none turned out blue (after culled twice, and do not know of any period)

I hope all are having fun this year!

[Cincy Ranchu]

Got a tiny spawn of Hamamashiki and bristol and veilstails, I put maysuyama outside this weekend. Ofthe 2000+ Matsuyama X Oishi I have about 40 left and the are in the 300 gal tub outside .

I have added a Midnight to the Jikin as a chaser, and now I go fishing for 5 days, Back on the Fridfay night

[orandablue]

2010 Spawning a thon! Yeah I am learning to hand spawn!
GOLD GOALS~~~#1 line up the F1 for LOTS of blue mixes!
*blue pearlscale
*blue oranda pom poms
*blue bubble eyes!
*blue telescopes(is this possible)
Also working on Azumas!
#
#2 working with the telescopes and seeing where that leads ```````````````````````````and how frustrating eyes can be and also trying to make my ```````````````````````````dragon ball pearlscales!

#3getting better orandas (tails body structure and of course the ```````````````````````````mighty Wen!
#4 Lionheads and ranchus (just getting into dorsal-less fish)(wen ``````````````````````````oriented study, and back lines.
#5 Hoplo catfish (yes i am a closet cat lover)

[johnatoranchu]

Had - two spawnings of metallic Orandas - look promising. One spawning of calico Orandas - infertile, will try again. Huge spawning of metallic Veiltails. Dorsals look good but tails could be broader. Have culled down to around 400 so hopefully there will be a few good fish in the mix. Experimental "Pearlscales" spawned, few eggs, they are hatching now (well I've seen one fry so far!!!!). Ranchu are looking good - might spawn within the next few days or so.
John

[TheTruth]

perfect my azuma strain .develope a ranchu that is both tv and sv

[harzan]

John,

My goodness. How many varieties are you adding??? I thought there were only Ranchu in your heart???hehehe.

Some kidding aside, are your Oranda to UK stds? the draping tail squared off??? If so, how early are you able to cull out for tail type?

Hope you had some surprise spawns for your birthday.

[johnatoranchu]

perfect my azuma strain .develope a ranchu that is both tv and sv

Sorry John, but this is a contradiction as the tail sets are different. Body shape should be the same as tvr bodies still need to look good from the side but notwithstanding your decades of experience with your own line of Ranchu I don't think you fully realise the implications of the "perfect" tvr rear end the difficulty in achieving it. Nevertheless, I guess one must never say "never" in goldfishkeeping so - be lucky!
John

[johnatoranchu]

John,

My goodness. How many varieties are you adding??? I thought there were only Ranchu in your heart???hehehe.

Some kidding aside, are your Oranda to UK stds? the draping tail squared off??? If so, how early are you able to cull out for tail type?

Hope you had some surprise spawns for your birthday.

Hi Harris
Yes I know - too many varieties - but I wanted to know what influence the mock metallic gene would have on calico Pearlscales and as I could not pursuade my friend and Pearlscale breeder to do it, I had to do it myself! Hopefully, if my experiment works, I will beat him on the show bench and then with mission accomplished I can disgard the Pearls although I must admit that the F1's look cute.
Am breeding the Orandas to UK standards. Have perfected the high dorsal and the drooping tail but still have work to do in squaring the tail and increasing its "broadness". It's a long job as outcrosses to shorter tailed imports are necessary from time to time to keep/improve the hood. Too soon to guage hood yet but finnage on a few babies looks promising. Culling is difficult in that very good fantailed fry need to be discarded and it is necessary, as with all livestock breeding, to keep reminding oneself what characteristics you are looking for and discard all those which don't "measure up".
GOOD NEWS - two Ranchu spawnings this morning.
John

[BruceP]

John... good to seee you posting. Could you post pix or a link to some pix of some UK standard orandas. The high dorsal and drooping squared off caudal sounds extremely interesting to me as Im sure it would be to others as well. My Thai Oranda pairing are doing very well so far but the UK standard sounds like what I'd like to try for.

[bigbettadan]

I want to see pics too. I love UK Veil and Oranda standard drawings...

It seems I am the only ranchu only guy...LOL actually I have a few others too... And lately butterflies have been tempting me....

Well, breeding wise, My Itoh/Kudo breeders are outside taking in the warm rain.... tick tock... Spawning is immienent......

Dan

[johnatoranchu]

I'll try to take/post some pics - meanwhile had a third spawning of Ranchu but as it was not planned I will not raise it, and the Jikin spawned this morning. Pearlscales are hatching but very few babes. Guess I would not normally raise such a small spawn (100 if I'm lucky) but as they are "experimental" I will grow them on for a while. Busy preparing spawning bowls and nests in the hope of four/five further spawnings of Ranchu and hopefully a spawning from my other line of Jikin. Tosakin seem to be making egg too!!!!
John

[Veil Gal]

I have a spawn of metallic veils. GORGEOUS dark orange/red male with super dorsal and razor straight caudal. Female is lovely red and white of similar quality. The sneaky pair started spawning the day I was leaving for a dog show, and so I was only able to gather a small amount of eggs. They did a repeat performance. Again, busy dog show schedule and retrieved only a fraction of eggs. Bad timing for me--but I am grateful to have fry from this lovely pair!

[johnatoranchu]

I have a spawn of metallic veils. GORGEOUS dark orange/red male with super dorsal and razor straight caudal. Female is lovely red and white of similar quality. The sneaky pair started spawning the day I was leaving for a dog show, and so I was only able to gather a small amount of eggs. They did a repeat performance. Again, busy dog show schedule and retrieved only a fraction of eggs. Bad timing for me--but I am grateful to have fry from this lovely pair!

Congratulations Michelle - it seems the corgis are getting in the way of your real interest - is it time they went?????? (Seriously I hope your "show days" were both enjoyable and successful. Catherine has been working our Standard Poodle in working trials throughout the late winter/early spring but without reward. The Poodle can do everything to a very high standards but has simply refused to do "everything" on the day. At each trial she has chosen a different element to play about in. Who'd keep dogs?). Will be very interested to hear how the fry develop, paricularly as far as the straightness of the trailing edge of their tails is concerned. My fry have too much indentation for my liking but there is a possibility that their tails will fill out and straighten as they grow.
John

[Veil Gal]

John, I can't imagine my life without Corgis. One thing I don't have to worry about with my dogs is their tails! I am curious what the "working trials" are that your poodle is shown in? Is that obedience competition or what? I primarily show my Corgis in agility, but have also started tracking. I also show in conformation (bench competition.) Standard poodles are wonderful dogs!
I know how you feel about the indented caudals on the veils. It is really difficult to get that straight edge. My spawn is very small, as noted. But I'll keep you posted on how the fry progress.

[harzan]

John,

Curious...

If your spawns do not hatch well, weak or low percentage, do you normally discard the fry?

I had a bowl of eggs and seemed to not hatch fully. I may have let the water get too hot. It was luke warm to the touch. I dripped cool water after but seems a little weak compared to another bowl of fry.

Thanks.

[johnatoranchu]

John,

Curious...

If your spawns do not hatch well, weak or low percentage, do you normally discard the fry?

I had a bowl of eggs and seemed to not hatch fully. I may have let the water get too hot. It was luke warm to the touch. I dripped cool water after but seems a little weak compared to another bowl of fry.

Thanks.

Hi Harris
As a general rule of thumb I seldom raise spawnings of 300 or less fry, even if they are healthy - it simply is not worthwhile. There are exceptions of course, particularly with experimentals, "reluctant" spawners and newly acquired fish which could possibly die before having a repeat spawning. As far as health is concerned, if there are any health issues whatsoever I pull the Plug - experience tells me that even if they live weak fry develop into weak adults and poor breeders.
John

[Cincy Ranchu]

Greg Rau and Chris Stifft came over last weekend and we cleaned tanks, put fish out and sorted breeding groups in to the four of the 7 150 glass tanks. Today the giant male blue Philly was crossed with the purple veiltail form DO ( Ken) and then again to its purple male friend. All in 5,000 eggs. Tonight they all look good!

Question, anybody ever breed a blue to a purple ( which is another blue I think)?:youtellme::youtellme::exact:

[bigbettadan]

Thats great news on the veils....... I think a veil revival is coming!!

Dan

[Cincy Ranchu]

I think so, it is nice to see the interest and to perhaps have enough interest to improve the Philly line

[bigbettadan]

Tracy's son really likes the veils....... I may have no choice but start raising them......LOL

Dan

[Cincy Ranchu]

I hope he likes changing water

[small_ranchu]

goldfish apprentices.. great

[Cincy Ranchu]

You make a good point, we must all encourage the next generation. I went to our all species club meeting this week, we flew in the famous goldfish guy David Shlesser from Dallas to talk on all the varieties of Pirahna's. Of the 57 people there, only a few were under 30...

The hobby needs new blood and ethusiasm, besides Tracey's son is very cool.:exact:

[bigbettadan]

With great power(good fish) comes great responsiblity(water changes)....LOL

He is being trained.

[VeiltailGuy]

Im 25...well almost 26>:)>:)>:)>:)

[Cincy Ranchu]

My chaser fish was going nuts, three females thrwing eggs and almost no milt, noy sure these 3K eggs will hatch.
May have to just breed them to the chaser

[bigbettadan]

Darn those Jikin males! Man up.....LOL

Dan

[Hondataeg6]

My chaser fish was going nuts, three females thrwing eggs and almost no milt, noy sure these 3K eggs will hatch.
May have to just breed them to the chaser

how many males per females did you use Gary?

[Cincy Ranchu]

10 Jikin, one male Midnight. Half of the Jikin are males. based on mid ridge, maybe they are all females? I think not though, three ripe females this morning......:exact:

[Cincy Ranchu]

My Hamamatsu finally spawned. I only have about 600 eggs, I have eyes today...
These are my favorite peduncled fish from Carney.:yess:

Anybody eles have this line of fish? I think I bought them in 2005, parents were victums of racoons, these are offspring.:yess::youtellme:

[opera]

Congratulation Gary...

Nice to know Hamamatsu bloodline is continuing in US.

Opera

[TheTruth]

It doesn't happen here very often but presently we have snow and whilst all my fish are inside in the fish house, they are all cold, around 39F which I think is too cold so heaters will be switched on over the weekend to raise the water temperature slowly to 45F for the rest of January then I'll gradually increase the temperature to prepare them for spawning.
All my breeding plans are therefore at the "paper" stage but my aims for 2010 are
- 6 spawnings of Ranchu. All Jinchu Kai fish but using different combinations
- 3 spawnings of Jikin. One spawning from each of my "lines" plus, if possible, a spawning between the lines
- 2 spawnings of metallic Orandas
- 1 spawning of calico Orandas
- 1 spawning of calico Oranda x calico Veiltail (the latter has a reasonable "hood"
- 1 spawning of Tosakin
- at least 1 spawning of metallic Veiltails
- 1 spawning of "experimental" calico Pearlscales with mock metallic genes
and as many "experimental" spawnings I can manage to take my "Imperials" forward.
All spawnings need to be accomplished between March and June so that the young are ready for the major shows in August and September.
I guess on paper it's easy!!!!!
John

sorry john raising that many fish will result in a mess

[afertuna]

You make a good point, we must all encourage the next generation. I went to our all species club meeting this week, we flew in the famous goldfish guy David Shlesser from Dallas to talk on all the varieties of Pirahna's. Of the 57 people there, only a few were under 30...

The hobby needs new blood and ethusiasm, besides Tracey's son is very cool.:exact:

I agree that there needs to be a way to attract younger peoples and how to keep the guru's around for us youngin's!!!

[johnatoranchu]

John, I regularly hatch 20/50,000 fry in a 4 month breeding season; indeed have peaked at 100,000. It doesn't result in a "mess" but it is all about skill levels, commitment and hard work.
John

[TheTruth]

then why are you always buying fish?do you really have any strains?how long have you had them?can we see pictures?

[johnatoranchu]

then why are you always buying fish?do you really have any strains?how long have you had them?can we see pictures?

I think you will find that most serious livestock breeders, whether it be fur, feather or fin, need to buy in seed stock on a regular basis to ensure the vigour of a line and to extend the gene pool generally. Sometimes the new seeds work, sometimes they don't. The alternative is simply to engage in continual inbreeding which in my opinion is the road to disaster - I've seen it happen too many times particularly if breeders only take one or two small spawns from their line each year. You regularly see pictures of my fish in the GSGB Bulletin and read what I'm doing. Guess you're going through a grouchy period - is the leg playing up or have your spawnings been disappointing this year?
John

[Cincy Ranchu]

Nice drama, we all know it is about dedication and size of hobby. We all know inbreding for more than 5 generations results in all kinds of strange abnormalities....:exact:

[bigbettadan]

Thats why you need friends to swap breedings with. It make for a more enjoyable process as well....

Dan

[afertuna]

thats why you need friends to swap breedings with. It make for a more enjoyable process as well....

Dan

exactly!!!!

[Virginia ranchu]

Well, while I've been slaving away indoors with my two ranchu spawns, there is a boat load of baby ranchu thriving outside in my pond. I keep all my breeder ranchu in a pond of their own, and there are a lot of floating plants in the pond. Today I was thinning the plants, and I noticed a bunch of half inch and under fry and lots of eggs. The nice thing about these fry is that they are different sizes, so I assume they are from different spawns. I collected about fifty of these fry and gave them their own tank. I'll see how they compare to the hand spawned/reared ones.

[harzan]

Hey Rob....glad to hear of your find. How do they compare to your hand spawns?

[Virginia ranchu]

It's hard to make a comparison yet, because the handspawned fry are much younger. The ones from the pond vary in quality, but I figure they avoided being eaten, so at least they can swim well.

How are your spawns this year?

[harzan]

they look better to me than last year. still needs work, but will stick with these mondens for a bit. I did a cross out, but had 2 batches and one died. I cannot remember for sure which was the cross. I guess I should place a post it near or on the tank.:)

My azumas were horrible on the 1st 2 batches. more than 50% had spikes. 3rd batch looks ok so far, but still 2 small to be sure. This line must have a lot of ranchu in it.

Thanks.

[TheTruth]

fish are not cows i have kept a ranchu strain going for 30 yrs or so with 5 or 6 outcrossings.you can see the results in my album.goldfish breeders out their do you want to spend a small fortune and breed other peoples fish or do you want to focus one one or two strains and try to perfect them.the choice is yours

[TheTruth]

Veiltail Improvement - 1 spawn hatched by Doug Wolf already.
2 Blue Veiltail crosses
Itoh Ranchu X2
Matsuyama Ranchu
Hamamatsu Ranchu
Bristolsls - 3 lines
Midnights
Calico Broadtails
Hamanashiki - Tai line
Jinchu line in fall
Blue Oranda X Veiltails
F-2 Midnight X Bristols cross
Fantails X Veiltails and Fantail X itself
EDONISHIKI Line
there is a wide spread idea that fancys over the age of four will stop spawing.on 6/18 my 7 0r 8 yr old female ranchu laid 1000 big robust eggs all nice and clear.i hand spawned her to her 7 or 8 yr old brother .i kept about 100 eggs

[Virginia ranchu]

Hi John,

That is impressive that your fish continue to spawn at that age. It's also interesting that you have kept them for that long. Did you keep these fish around because they were exceptional?

I am curious why you reduced the size of the spawn to only 100 eggs. That seems like a small number of fry to select from, but if the fry are very uniform in your line, then I guess there wouldn't be a lot to select on at a young age.

Cheers,

Rob

[TheTruth]

all i need is 1 or 2 fish. i dont believe you can do so many spawns and wind up top fish .i had one other ranchu spawn from related fish so the line is secure.plus i have 20 other ranchu all related.how many fish does one guy need

[TheTruth]

i believe i have a 10 yr old ranchu swimming around .i had a calico oranda that i bred who lived 17 yrs. i keep the fish under ice in my pond in the winter.i think that is one of the keys to a long life in a goldfish,they get to sleep

[Virginia ranchu]

That makes sense to me. The more generations I take my ranchu line, the more uniform the fry are. I'm always torn between keeping more fry and trying to find the "one in million great one", and keeping fewer fry, and hoping the extra room and food will be more beneficial to the group I keep.

Thanks,

Rob

[johnatoranchu]

there is a wide spread idea that fancys over the age of four will stop spawing.on 6/18 my 7 0r 8 yr old female ranchu laid 1000 big robust eggs all nice and clear.i hand spawned her to her 7 or 8 yr old brother .i kept about 100 eggs

Not sure whether or not this is in fact an accurate assessment, John. Neither I, nor any serious breeders I know in the UK, (or my friends in Japan) choose to breed from old animals, particularly if they are used to repeat previous matings, but this is not because we can't or they won't, it's because we are aiming to move forward all the time which is achieved by using the "older" animals' younger offspring. Breeders of other competitive show animals tend to adopt the same methodology. Indeed I see no merit in keeping old fish. I'm not sentimental and if I do not intend to show a fish or breed from it then I question why I keep it. Normally I don't. Having said that I have bred from 5 year old Jikin this year but this was out of necessity as historically they have been difficult to spawn and I contrived to lose all their babies last year.
John

[Cincy Ranchu]

John X2,

Do you ever do a multiyear back cross by taking a Nisai to a old OYA like a 6 or 7 year old?

[Virginia ranchu]

In a linebred strain, the older fish would be less inbred than the younger fish. If a line is starting to show inbreeding depression, back-crossing to an older fish should widen the gene pool.

[orandablue]

Well been busy here in the OHIO. (going crazy)(doing water changes like breathing)
Original goals here....
{{the goals:2010 Spawning a thon! Yeah I am learning to hand spawn!
GOLD GOALS~~~#1 line up the F1 for LOTS of blue mixes!
*blue pearlscale
*blue oranda pom poms
*blue bubble eyes!
*blue telescopes(is this possible)
Also working on Azumas!}}

What Happened here...
Practiced hand spawning the hardest part is the ridicule from friends!
Decided I like it sometimes other times it is not so desirable to hand spawn. Found it dangerous to hand spawn bubble eyes because eyes can get blood shot easily.
Hmmm basicaly all plans went awry. Got some blue bubble eye+ black ranchu spawns. Blue bubble+ blue oranda spawns went to hell.Mad2
Got some weird Demekin telescope mixes!?? (shubunkin-ish+telescope)

DRAGON BALLS!~!!! Got first spawn, (i think) of pearlscale(hamanishiki)+butterfly tail telescope! This will be the focus from now on...through summer.

Ranchu+nice hybrid sakura~got a really nice hand spawn of two selected fish that I really wanted to breed!
Basically this spring I set up nicer grow out 'sumped' tanks and upgraded fry tanks/condos as i call them

Blue pom pom orandas~F2 growing out these beautiful hybrids

OH and why not! I got a wakin spawn or two. Most perished they where the forerunners in new baby tanks for start of season.

THINGS THAT HAVE CHANGED:::
I never liked ryukin much but picked up a few little ones that I might actually like working with in the future!
Currently: wrapping brains around PH. AND my new salt water tanks! Oh No! Its a clownfish!
Still building a sump from scratch.:coffee:
New Goals!!~get a web site.
Have a photography show.
Teach Maude to play basketball.

[TheTruth]

Not sure whether or not this is in fact an accurate assessment, John. Neither I, nor any serious breeders I know in the UK, (or my friends in Japan) choose to breed from old animals, particularly if they are used to repeat previous matings, but this is not because we can't or they won't, it's because we are aiming to move forward all the time which is achieved by using the "older" animals' younger offspring. Breeders of other competitive show animals tend to adopt the same methodology. Indeed I see no merit in keeping old fish. I'm not sentimental and if I do not intend to show a fish or breed from it then I question why I keep it. Normally I don't. Having said that I have bred from 5 year old Jikin this year but this was out of necessity as historically they have been difficult to spawn and I contrived to lose all their babies last year.
John
i did not choose to breed her.she was laying a great volume of eggs in the pond.i hand spawned her to her brother just to see if i get anything .so far the eggs look good.i dont need to move foward im already there

[TheTruth]

gary what do is take a2yr old female i find they have the most robust eggs and mate her to a one or 3yr old male.i usually never breed brother to sister.for example last year because i was sick a brother and sister spawned in a tank.i only got 6 out of a monster spawn

[johnatoranchu]

In a linebred strain, the older fish would be less inbred than the younger fish. If a line is starting to show inbreeding depression, back-crossing to an older fish should widen the gene pool.

Whilst I agree that an older fish in a linebred/inbred strain would be less inbred that the younger fish, and possibly therefore more verile, breeding from it would not widen the gene pool within the strain as that fish's genes are already in it. It could of course put back unwanted genes/characteristics which had since been eliminated through selection which is a very real danger when backcrossing but such a move is hardly the way forward if the aim is one of continuous improvement.
John

[johnatoranchu]

John X2,

Do you ever do a multiyear back cross by taking a Nisai to a old OYA like a 6 or 7 year old?

Hi Gary
I would if there was no alternative but generally my aim is one of continuous improvement - or at least trying to - and I regard using old fish as a backward step and to be absolutely truthful I can't do it anyway because once I have sufficient younger fish of the desired quality I discard the pensioners. Ideally, I would use young oya, that is fish in their third year, but I have had many successes breeding nisai x nisai. Nisai females certainly produce eggs in quantity (possibly slightly smaller than those from oya). When breeding nisai x nisai I like to use one female with two or even 3 males. The males would be brothers (but the female is never their sister!). This method usually produces at least 2,000 fry and has produced up to 10,000.
John

[Virginia ranchu]

Whilst I agree that an older fish in a linebred/inbred strain would be less inbred that the younger fish, and possibly therefore more verile, breeding from it would not widen the gene pool within the strain as that fish's genes are already in it. It could of course put back unwanted genes/characteristics which had since been eliminated through selection which is a very real danger when backcrossing but such a move is hardly the way forward if the aim is one of continuous improvement.
John

I agree, however, in my case, it has taken some years for me to understand what to cull for in my fry. I think a lot of us inadvertently fix some bad traits along the way, and a backcross could undo the damage. For example, when I first started out, I selected the fry with the very round backs, only to discover that these fish look like golfballs when they mature. I now select the longer-bodied fry and the results are an improvement.

Cheers,

Rob

[Veil Gal]

Rob, I can related to what you are saying about learning through experience with fry selection.
As some of you know, I also breed/train/show Pembroke Welsh Corgis. In years past, I sadly sold into pet homes, dogs who later turned out to be show quality, because as youngsters they showed undesirable traits. As it turned out, this was a "growth stage" and later corrected itself. Experience is a great teacher!
Which brings up a VEILTAIL fry selection question. I have some fry in my three month old spawn that have folds in their caudal fins. Neither parent has this trait. Has anyone had this fault? I have one fry that is really nice except the folds in the caudal fin. This was a small spawn, so I hate to discard an otherwise nice fish. Not sure how dominant this fault is.
Any other Veil breeders have experience with this?
Thanks in advance, Michelle

[johnatoranchu]

Rob, I can related to what you are saying about learning through experience with fry selection.
As some of you know, I also breed/train/show Pembroke Welsh Corgis. In years past, I sadly sold into pet homes, dogs who later turned out to be show quality, because as youngsters they showed undesirable traits. As it turned out, this was a "growth stage" and later corrected itself. Experience is a great teacher!
Which brings up a VEILTAIL fry selection question. I have some fry in my three month old spawn that have folds in their caudal fins. Neither parent has this trait. Has anyone had this fault? I have one fry that is really nice except the folds in the caudal fin. This was a small spawn, so I hate to discard an otherwise nice fish. Not sure how dominant this fault is.
Any other Veil breeders have experience with this?
Thanks in advance, Michelle

Hi Michelle
Most Veiltail breeders have this problem which suggests that this is a dominant fault, however in the scheme of things it is a relatively minor one. The only thing which worries me in your post is that in a SMALL spawning you have SOME fry with this fault. Nothing is set in stone as far as goldfish are concerned (dogs too I understand) but my rule is simple, if a relatively large number of fish in a spawning show a certain fault then no matter how trivial that fault may be in the general scheme of things, do not breed from any fish that has that fault. In that way you have a chance of eliminating that fault from your gene pool but if a fish carrying that fault is bred from within that line the chances are that the fault will appear in increasing numbers of the progeny.
John

[Virginia ranchu]

Hi Michelle,

I don't have any veils, and I assume the folds are a genetic issue, however, I have observed something about the caudals in my calico oranda fry. In the past, my calicos have often had twisted or "broken" caudal fins and the problems appeared suddenly. This year I am feeding only baby brine and frozen bloodworm, and the development is much better than when I supplemented with flake food. Though I have noticed that some fry develop whitish areas on their caudals that quickly result in fin rot. I've been concentrating on water changes and adding Melafix and the problem seems to go away. I don't have this problem with metallic fry.

Rob

[Cincy Ranchu]

I think John has pegged this correctly, we need big spawns from 2 and 3 year old fish with egg counts in the 700 range minimum Tail defects like folding , half moon top edge, crows foot attachment to the peduncle and peduncle too low on the fish show be discarded, small spawn or not.

[TheTruth]

I think John has pegged this correctly, we need big spawns from 2 and 3 year old fish with egg counts in the 700 range minimum Tail defects like folding , half moon top edge, crows foot attachment to the peduncle and peduncle too low on the fish show be discarded, small spawn or not.

got 2 baby ranch so far.got one azuma.still culling.giving most culls to pet store.blue comes last.what do you have?have one ranch from last year with bracelet and shoulders .what else in the rear of the fish.fish .please describe in US terms.has great side view.no horns

[johnatoranchu]

got 2 baby ranch so far.got one azuma.still culling.giving most culls to pet store.blue comes last.what do you have?have one ranch from last year with bracelet and shoulders .what else in the rear of the fish.fish .please describe in US terms.has great side view.no horns

Sounds as though you are having a disappointing time, hence the need for large spawnings. I have had some (small) rubbish spawnings from my Ranchu as well this year. Three were culled completely and another (originally only 251 fry) is down to 7 and 1 or 2 might possibly be worth keeping. The first spawning of the year however produced 800 fry and these have been culled to 20 so far but I think another 5/6 will go soon. Of the remainder, I think 10 will be "keepers" and 2 of these might make show quality. However, my Ranchu year has been saved by a recent QUALITY spawning from my very best female. Originally around 1500 fry from which 216 with divided tails, full bracelets, good shoulders and largish tails remain. Have my fingers crossed that the peduncles will develop too (from these parents, a good head is virtually a given). I am hoping/anticipating growing on 20 or so of these to Nisai. There are already several discriptions/photos of good Ranchu on this site but if you peruse the internet you will quickly find examples of good asian Ranchu which will demonstrate what is required more effectively than "words" which can always be mis-interpreted.
John

[TheTruth]

im not disappointed at all.all i need out of a spawn is a couple of fish.the old lady spawn looks promising .

[bigbettadan]

Congrats John! Sounds like a great spawn to build from.

Dan

[TheTruth]

im not disappointed at all.all i need out of a spawn is a couple of fish.the old lady spawn looks promising .
the old lady has spawned 2 more times and the old male is full of sperm,i am not keeping eggs as i have at least 8 or 10 good ranchu babies for the future plus a cross from last year which produced 2 good females with extremely large head growth and a male whos back is too round but is a good backup fish for mix and match of the future.last yrs azuma are turning more blue.i have no idea why at such a late date

[Virginia ranchu]

Hey John,

My "azuma challenge" fish turned more blue a year later also. They spent the first eight months indoors, but the blue really kicked in when they went out to the pond. I'll post some pics if I can catch them.

cheers,
Rob

[orandablue]

[blue pearlscale
*blue oranda pom poms
*blue bubble eyes!
*blue telescopes(is this possible)
Also working on Azumas!}}


Teach Maude to play basketball.[/QUOTE]

Mid summer Update!
Maude does not play basketball yet~ But did recover from soft tummy illness.
THE BLUES!(summertime blues)~~
Blue bubble eye spawn with blue oranda hybrid was HUGE! So blue bubble eye project underwayF1!
Blue pom poms are not showing pom poms. the end.
The fry sump tank did not work out so well. But did get the homemade sump done for the 65! ITS LOUD!
Telescope studies~~couple spawns involving 3 specimens. Demekin/shubunkin, chocolate moore and butterfly telescope..
The eyes are frustrating to get even. It has been fun changing the body type and tail though on these type. {blk shubunkin tail telescope!}
DRAGON BALL!!!~~ No luck breeding yet but got some panda telescopes for later.
The dragon eye pearl will be difficult i think.
I did get a bunch of little black ranchu spawns with different "guys".
One pairing with a pearlscale produced super fat cute fish. }*:
In summary I am learning more about gf genetics and upbringing.
There are so many factors in raising fry! It takes so much time and attention. ~bacteria flukes bacteria flukes~
The main thing i have learned is you can't be too careful! But also there are always surprises! AND accidents. Happy and bad.
The next goal: MOVING house! Transporting 250 gallons of fish. And equipment. :youtellme:

[TheTruth]

Hey John,

My "azuma challenge" fish turned more blue a year later also. They spent the first eight months indoors, but the blue really kicked in when they went out to the pond. I'll post some pics if I can catch them.

cheers,
Rob
got 2 great looking red caps from this yrs azuma spawn only one good looking azuma .it goes with my long held theory that red caps played some part in developing azumas in the past.old lady spawn turned out great so far.babies are about one and one half inches and coloring up

[Virginia ranchu]

Hi John,

I can't wait to see pictures. When you say "red caps" are you talking about calico oranda with red head growth, or the white metallic with red cap? I am sure a red capped oranda would be good for the body type, but don't you lose all your black and blue color in the calicos when you make that cross? My line started with a calico ryukin and a calico oranda. I am getting nice color, but as you'd expect, some look like orandas and some look like ryukins. I am noticing so many subtle different types of calico. Some with metallic irises, but not metallic scales, some with black peppering and black marking in the fins. Some with white background and larger pinto-like red and black areas, but no peppering. Some with yellow hoods and some with white hoods. I like them all.

Cheers,

Rob

[Cincy Ranchu]

Dan and Jordan came over last week end and we culled 8 spawns of veils in 14 tanks. We dispated about 50% and out anything with potentail but not enough room presently into a large pond to test for another 60 days.

Anyway, finally I have true blue metallic phillys from my Philly blue X philly uncolored. The fish are pretty nice, now we have to see if they hold the color.

Back in April my Jikin were chasing and the males had no viable milt, this continued into the second spawn so I did a Midnight Shubunkin to a Jikin nd got about 1000 fry, all calico single tails. Not having enough room I have gave away all but about 60 fry. Anybody have any thoughts of the odds of getting Jikin in the fry from this F1 cross. A group of us tried this with Black Ranchu and shubunkins about 8 years ago and after several generations no twin tails ever showed up. The colored up fry look a lot like a Bristol.

BEP fry were also culled last week end, seems I will have about 40 to distribute.

The Jinchu fry from Matt Lyon have not been culled as we are saving this for when John comes over in a few weeks. I scoop of 10-12 yielded 5 keepers according to Chris Stift. The remaining 200 look pretty nice.

A cross of a Blue Philly X a purple broadtail yielded some nice vigorous fish but they are not blue or purple,some are decoloring to a soft orange.

The Blue phillyX calico American Fantail has yielded some nice Veils that are calico.

2 spawns of Matsuyama ranchu have yieled some nice fish, onespawn is getting headgrowth the others, not so much. A spawn of Oishi X Matsuyama has yielded some very nice fish with great shoulders and bracelots.

The Itohs I purchased in 2009 as BBR are really nice fish but not ammorous, The Hatorri I bought this year as BBR are pretty spectacular.

Very sad to say the very large Itoh X Kudo fish I got this spring all are disceased from a bacterial/protozoan? disease that did not effect other fish in the pool. I had a professional fish farmer inspect and we ruled out all the regular stuff; Chilodinella, Costia, gill Flukes, bacterial Gill Disease, and Aeromonas. Our theory is that it was Tricodinella and a secondary bacterial infection. It started with the back of the fish breaking the surface and the fish being somewhat listless- after trying quick cure, Potassium Permangenate, salt and Oxilic acid I have concluded that quick cure and oxilinic acid have the best potential of giving adequate treatment, but you must start early. I share this with the group just in case you are struggling with large Ranchu imports. I might add that the disease did come back after an earlier cure.Thus you might want to wash the filters and continue treatment for more than a week. This is the type of disaster that makes wives ask "how much"?:exact::youtellme:

[bigbettadan]

I would like to add that I also had the best luck with QC and Pro C(pretty much the same stuff). I do like the yellow powder, but it is next to impossible to get. I have added Oxillic Acid. I thing Suphi has had good luck with it. The bottom line is with Adult Imports they require alot of vigilance to succeed. You have a limited time frame it get fry. I am very pleased with my US born Itoh. While they still need work, I think they are a good place to start.

Also, though the Blue Philly/broadtail cross are turning orange...... The finnage and form is tremendous. Mine are pushing 3 inch body length and they are quite exciting.

Dan

[TheTruth]

these are white bodied fish with a red cap,my azumas all have red caps and calico bodies.im noticing some more azuma look babies with inferior tails im going to keep them anyway for color.im going to put them in shallow water with a double strip light or maby 4 lights and never turn off the lights.this will produce red color,green water and much algie.lets see if they get more blue.the head growth is great.fish are fed my formula and wardlys shrimp pellets and frozen blood worms.the pet store guy owes me so i get it free .

[Cincy Ranchu]

Hubs/John,

Have you ever taken the Ranchu from a spawning and ever tried to create a Tancho line of Ranchu. My one croos has about six such fish and I am thinking of starting a paralell line?:exact:

[Virginia ranchu]

For any of those who have been following the "Azuma Challenge" project that was started a few years back. Here are some photos of some of the fish I have bred to date. I will post pics of this years babies later. P.S. These are not the real thing (Azumanishiki). The challenge was to source a few calico orandas that PetSmart had for a short time, and see how close you could come to developing a fish that resembled an Azuma. Since I started with one oranda and one ryukin (I couldn't find a pair of calico oranda at the time), my challenge now is to select for the oranda headgrowth.

Rob

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu344/Virginia_Ranchu/Azuma%20Challenge%202010/AzumaChallenge018.jpg
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu344/Virginia_Ranchu/Azuma%20Challenge%202010/AzumaChallenge001.jpg
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu344/Virginia_Ranchu/Azuma%20Challenge%202010/AzumaChallenge012.jpg
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu344/Virginia_Ranchu/Azuma%20Challenge%202010/AzumaChallenge038.jpg

[Virginia ranchu]

And a few more:

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu344/Virginia_Ranchu/Azuma%20Challenge%202010/AzumaChallenge023.jpg
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu344/Virginia_Ranchu/Azuma%20Challenge%202010/AzumaChallenge044.jpg
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu344/Virginia_Ranchu/Azuma%20Challenge%202010/AzumaChallenge033.jpg

[johnatoranchu]

Hubs/John,

Have you ever taken the Ranchu from a spawning and ever tried to create a Tancho line of Ranchu. My one croos has about six such fish and I am thinking of starting a paralell line?:exact:

Looking forward to continuing "the great cull" Gary!!!!!! Ranchu are difficult enough to breed without deliberatly aiming for a certain colour pattern but having said that I guess I get a number of "near" tancho Ranchu each year. Indeed I have produced a particularly reasonable one this year but it is SVR rather than TVR (I think you'd like this one Hubs). Think I'll keep it - this is one of the problems with not culling soon enough; it becomes more difficult to cull once fish have coloured; even I get distracted by the odd "pretty" fish!
John

[johnatoranchu]

Rob, congratulations on the young Azumas. Mine have not really got off the ground yet. Only achieved first spawning this year and as mentioned previously quality was unbelieveably poor. Am growing on 20 as possible breeding stock (I cannot carry on buying new fish each year and hoping for the best), but most have joined tails. I've also kept a dozen or so single tails from the spawning as their coloration, very intense black, is interesting - don't tell Harris or he'll want some!!!
John

[Virginia ranchu]

Rob, congratulations on the young Azumas. Mine have not really got off the ground yet. Only achieved first spawning this year and as mentioned previously quality was unbelieveably poor. Am growing on 20 as possible breeding stock (I cannot carry on buying new fish each year and hoping for the best), but most have joined tails. I've also kept a dozen or so single tails from the spawning as their coloration, very intense black, is interesting - don't tell Harris or he'll want some!!!
John

Thanks John...but in your own words, these aren't Azumas (just wannabes). Anyway, they are a fun project along side the ranchu.

Best,

Rob

[Veil Gal]

Well this post is about a veil spawn. I had a small but interesting batch of fry. The parents were good quality fish, with high dorsals and nice caudal fins--nearly straight edge, and proper body shape.
Well imagine my surprise when I got a fish that looked like a perfect wakin.
Both the profile and the top view--award winning wakin! Horrible veiltail. I kept the fish, to put it in my 300 gallon pond--with my wakin! I think it will be interesting to see how s/he grows on. I have named the fish "Wannabe."
Like, wannabe a wakin.
I also got some fry with ribbon tails. I have never seen that before. And as I already mentioned, the parents have great caudal fins. Anyone else have a similar experience? I know caudal fins will fill in over time on veil fry, but I doubt they will on these ribbon tails.:youtellme:

[TheTruth]

Hubs/John,

Have you ever taken the Ranchu from a spawning and ever tried to create a Tancho line of Ranchu. My one croos has about six such fish and I am thinking of starting a paralell line?:exact:

gary too much confusion refer to me as the truth . look on the aga web site and you will see my tanchos

[TheTruth]

And a few more:

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu344/Virginia_Ranchu/Azuma%20Challenge%202010/AzumaChallenge023.jpg
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu344/Virginia_Ranchu/Azuma%20Challenge%202010/AzumaChallenge044.jpg
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu344/Virginia_Ranchu/Azuma%20Challenge%202010/AzumaChallenge033.jpg

will post azuma pictures of last yrs fish in my album as well as last yrs outcross of ranchu that look great

[TheTruth]

Looking forward to continuing "the great cull" Gary!!!!!! Ranchu are difficult enough to breed without deliberatly aiming for a certain colour pattern but having said that I guess I get a number of "near" tancho Ranchu each year. Indeed I have produced a particularly reasonable one this year but it is SVR rather than TVR (I think you'd like this one Hubs). Think I'll keep it - this is one of the problems with not culling soon enough; it becomes more difficult to cull once fish have coloured; even I get distracted by the odd "pretty" fish!
John
john ive been doing this for years i call them red helmets.i try to get an all red face ,white body and red fins.see various pictures in aga as well as my album.

[TheTruth]

where is bluebelly .how are the purple ranchus comming?

[Cincy Ranchu]

He is busy getting ready for Johna dn then coming to the Breeders Social (an historical event).

[bluebelly]

I am picking three ranchu for the winter breeding cycle. These are Hubs/ Hader [Mitta] crosses that look to be tvr. All the rest are living at the nursery.

[TheTruth]

id like some babies when you get them.anything on the purple cross

[bluebelly]

I will try the purple cross, hope you can wait many years to see something purple with wen?

[TheTruth]

I will try the purple cross, hope you can wait many years to see something purple with wen?

i dont care about wens.big moma died,funeral today.i think she was only about 6.

[Cincy Ranchu]

i dont care about wens.big moma died,funeral today.i think she was only about 6.

As many of you know I grow Plecostomus in my nonranchu heated tanks. I had a trio of Bristols chase into a ceramic cave about 2" in diameter. No survivors, burila at sea

[TheTruth]

gary too much confusion refer to me as the truth . look on the aga web site and you will see my tanchos

i now have a toncho baby with top view characteristics ,peduncle is somewhat small and futons will be rounded ,shoulders are large ,tail is split,and is at right angles to the body,swimming motion is perfect,if all goes well i would have prodused my own strain of tvr if the baby produces .fish is aprox.9mos.this fish was produced from my strain just like the asains did.

[BruceP]

I'd love to see pix if you can. Sounds like a very interesting fish.

[TheTruth]

as soon as i can get one of my kids up here to get the pictures into the computer that and my azuma strain fish will be seen

[Cincy Ranchu]

Can you get with Kendal aboutSVR illustrations

[Cincy Ranchu]

I am home this week and thought I might display some of the highlights of 2010 for me; Four short clips of the Veiltail success;

http://s552.photobucket.com/albums/jj339/CincyRanchu/?action=view&current=2010-12-30144958.mp4

These are a few of my favorite fish for 2010.

Next are the Blue Philadelphia, these are back with several breeders coming of age with Gonefishin and myself.

http://s552.photobucket.com/albums/jj339/CincyRanchu/?action=view&current=2010-12-30145032.mp4

The next tank are some additionaal fish that come the the breeding group, note some are veils and some are broadtails...

http://s552.photobucket.com/albums/jj339/CincyRanchu/?action=view&current=2010-12-30145110.mp4



Lastly we continue to improve calicos and are trying to bring black flechs into the tail of the Philly;

http://s552.photobucket.com/albums/jj339/CincyRanchu/?action=view&current=2010-12-30145400.mp4

I trust this pasting from Photobucket works, and have a great new year

[Cincy Ranchu]

This is the thred i am talking about.

[bluebelly]

Must say to Gary that this is a nice job with the veils, you have managed to keep the philly veil line going and also the philly blue belly line which I thought may have been lost. These fish look more plump than Thommas and the bluebelly insertion was from a Thai butterfly, which was not known for its body . You have these guys in the right direction and the better body shape. If I may make one suggestion see if you can separate the bb from the metallic. Good work. These are fish I want to get for my breeding purposes Nice work

[Cincy Ranchu]

As anybody knows who trys these fish, they are beautiful but difficult to get a perfect fish and to maintain its tail in great shape. Over the last four or so years Greg Rau ( Fishy Greg ) and Doug Wolf ( Gone Fishin) have made this line keeping more fun and enjoyable by sharing breeders and fry.

[bigbettadan]

Looks like you have thinned the tanks out since my last visit..

Dan

[Cincy Ranchu]

We had a couple of 2011 goals meetings and people left with breeders, we have also gotten rid of certain phenotypes and I also mailed off some boxes.

Today some are going out in the barn and the Jikin are coming in!

[TheTruth]

I'd love to see pix if you can. Sounds like a very interesting fish.

baby tonchu is pictured in my new photos,looks like a female

[afertuna]

We had a couple of 2011 goals meetings and people left with breeders, we have also gotten rid of certain phenotypes and I also mailed off some boxes.

Today some are going out in the barn and the Jikin are coming in!

The fish look great!! I had another spawn of the thoma X veils when they get bigger and the weather improves youll FINALLY get them...

[Cincy Ranchu]

That sounds great, it will happen in 2011.

[VeiltailGuy]

FISH LOOK VERY NICE GARY!:exact:

[Cincy Ranchu]

Must say to Gary that this is a nice job with the veils, you have managed to keep the philly veil line going and also the philly blue belly line which I thought may have been lost. These fish look more plump than Thommas and the bluebelly insertion was from a Thai butterfly, which was not known for its body . You have these guys in the right direction and the better body shape. If I may make one suggestion see if you can separate the bb from the metallic. Good work. These are fish I want to get for my breeding purposes Nice work

So I am looking at the Blue Bellies and I wonder what crosses to make? BB X BB, Blue metallic X BB, BB X nacreous? :exact:

[bluebelly]

The cross I would be most interested in is the bb x bb. Once they are re-established with good confirmation and fin shape then the offspring can go in any direction. Every third year I would cross bb to nacreous.

[Cincy Ranchu]

I think I may have action this week, blazing stars, some pushing, and many blood worms

[TheTruth]

looks like i have a top view baby.i can see shoulders and bracelet,tail is split,so far headgrowth stinks.two years ago he would have gone to the pet store.may get red wiggler worms for headgrowth and thinner shape