Weird white patches, sloughing off slime or skin?

[WakinAZ]

I got a few oranda from a LFS. After a week of quarantine with a little salt (just 1 TBSP per 5 gallons for healing and stress relief) they all have ick spots. No big deal by itself, but one of them also has some weird whitish patches, mostly on the wen area and on the peduncle area, extending back into the tail fins. I almost looks like the fish is sloughing off skin or part of its slime coat? The fish appears to be unbothered by it, is even attempting to mate with the other fish.

Currently treating with API "Super Ick Cure" (active ingredients are good ole malachite green and nitrofurazone). Tank at 70F, no ammonia or nitrite. 50% WC done today.

Help? Thanks. Pics below:

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s160/WakinAZ/other/100_0934.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s160/WakinAZ/other/100_0961.jpg

[suphi]

Looks like excess slime but hard to tell from static photos. Does it come of easily with Q-tip? The easiest way to tell is to look at it under microscope. If you see a lot of white blood cells then that's pus instead of slime.

[suphi]

Common things being common, my guess is that's excess slime. Fish has ick, which is irritating to the skin so it would produce extra slime in response to the infection/inflammation.

It's gonna be tough to treat ick in that gravel-laden tank as the cysts would fall off and get trapped below. I'd consider raising the temperature to near 80F to hasten the cycle of these parasites that can only be killed in free-swimming stage, otherwise the perpetual cycle will just keep going (cysts falling off fish, hidden underneath gravel, new icks hatching from cysts infecting fish, etc.).

[SeaWitch]

I agree with Suphi, raise the temp. Also, for a safer ich cure, I use plain aquarium salt at .3% for 7 days and I vacume the tank about three times during that 7 days, but I also have no gravel to contend with.

[William Tricker Inc.]

I have often brought fish back from the brink of death from Ick and various other things just by putting them in a barebottom tank, turning the heat up to bout 80, and salting at bout one rounded tablespoon for every five gallons.... Usually the fish look better the next day and cured within days. Also alot safer than dumping tons of chemicals in there, which often if a fish is on it's last "fin" will often send them over the edge and kill them

good luck!

[Cincy Ranchu]

Don't believe this is ich, I would choose one of two options, water change and then Oxilinic Acid or Quick Cure and salt :me:in combination

[afertuna]

whats the PH in the tank? When ph drops I see that on the fish too and salt can crash the ph.

[WakinAZ]

This tank is primarily my second display tank, it only gets put in service as an isolation/QT tank when I get new fish: all established fish get put in the big display (125) and the newbies go in this 75. This is a long-winded explanation of why there is gravel in there. Point taken though, I've been meaning to take the gravel down to a thin layer from the inch or so it is now.

The other two fish in this tank definitely have a mild case of ick, but no sign of the slime/skin sloughing. The poor little guy in the pics is getting worse it seems.

While I've been enjoying not having to use heaters since I've come back to goldfish, it probably is time to dig one out of the boxes in the garage for a few weeks. When I finish this course of API "Super Ick Cure", I will revert to salt and heat and time to get whatever bugs remain out of the system whether or not he makes it.

Thanks all,

[WakinAZ]

whats the PH in the tank? When ph drops I see that on the fish too and salt can crash the ph.

pH = 7.8 and rock steady due to high alkalinity in our tap water and weekly water changes. I though salt was a base vs. an acid: sea water pH is crazy high. In any case, not the issue here, although who knows what happened during the long journey from wherever he was raised.

[Cincy Ranchu]

Have you scrapped for flukes?

[WakinAZ]

Have you scrapped for flukes?

no microscope... but skin flukes might explain the mucus and decreased activity/general decline, hmm

[suphi]

Flukes are as common if not more than ick and Prazi is pretty benign to the fish. It doesn't hurt to just treat for it.

[Cincy Ranchu]

I agree with Sulphi, it is better to treat for flukes than to do nothing, change water (30% to 50%) every 24 hours during treatment

[WakinAZ]

Well, I do have about 1/3 bottle of PraziPro sitting around waiting for just such an occasion. Gary, are you saying dose daily? For how many days? Package directions say repeat after 3-5 days.

[WakinAZ]

Well the worst of the subject fish now has frayed, decaying fins with dark red ends. I didn't get around to a water change and Prazi yet. The other two have much more severe ich spots, so I am going to go with a shotgun approach of QuickCure (actually Kordon Rid-Ich+, same active ingredients) and salt @ 0.3% after a big water change tomorrow. Tank now at 82F.

Sheesh, this thing just gets worse and worse. I guess I've been spoiled, haven't had a serious illness or death in years, now this. Good news is my main tank is isolated and remains free of whatever this is that is going on in the QT tank...

[WakinAZ]

Well the shotgun mix of QuickCure, salt and heat seems to have worked. All fish markedly improved and full recovery is on the way. :yess: I will be treating all fish from suspect suppliers in this way proactively from now on. Fish from know good disease-free suppliers will continue to get observation, isolation and the lower dose of salt for stress.

Thanks again all and best in the new year...

[WakinAZ]

Same fish now completely healed, sorry for crummy pic (as always). Note the interesting color change, for the better IMO. Can stress, illness and meds precipitate a color change? Or was it already in the works? Little of both, most likely.
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7607/1001027v.jpg (http://img96.imageshack.us/i/1001027v.jpg/)