Help me learn....... culling ryukin

[BruceP]

We are learning to breed our goldies. This last attempt was with 4 mature fish, 2 males, 2 females, and now about 6 weeks later we have about 200 little fish to go thru and pick out what we want to keep to grow out further. I know the obvious things like deformities, gill issues, etc. but once we have done that, what next? Color? Fin length? There arent many that show alot of hump yet and I know that can come later so what should I be culling at 6 weeks? I have a question on color. there are alot that are flesh colored and some of those have black streaks or speckling (coloration of one of the males). What color will the flesh color turn into? Overall, this is probably our best attempt and we can see many of the parents traits in the fry and there is quite a varience of colors. Any info would certainly help us learn, thank you. I can post pix of the parents if you wish. Here are some of the babes the majority of which are about 1.5 inches.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/23tbucket/Ryukin%20Fry/100_0407.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/23tbucket/Ryukin%20Fry/100_0406.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/23tbucket/Ryukin%20Fry/100_0405.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/23tbucket/Ryukin%20Fry/100_0403.jpg

Thanx
Bruce

[BruceP]

Decided to add the parents:

Female:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/23tbucket/Ryukin%20Fry/paige1.jpg

Female:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/23tbucket/Ryukin%20Fry/speckles1.jpg

Male:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/23tbucket/Ryukin%20Fry/BigMo4.jpg

Male:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/23tbucket/Ryukin%20Fry/shortie6.jpg

[bigbettadan]

What fin type are you going for? you have 3 different fin types represented in the seed fish, a broadtail, forked longfin, and forked shortfin. That will effect how you cull for tails...... also body length is an issue for Ryukins... You first fish has a longer more veiltail body vs the short body of the other fish..

Dan

[Cincy Ranchu]

All those whitish pink ones with blacks eggs have to go.

Throw away all the single tails and fish that tilt.

Keep a few metallics

The nacreous fish that are not nicely colored...

Then I wait until humps start to show up

[BruceP]

What fin type are you going for? you have 3 different fin types represented in the seed fish, a broadtail, forked longfin, and forked shortfin. That will effect how you cull for tails...... also body length is an issue for Ryukins... You first fish has a longer more veiltail body vs the short body of the other fish..

Dan

Dan,,,,,, Hopefully we end up with the long finnage of the brown fish and confirmation of the red metallic. Because the first fishes body we added the short tailed male hoping it would add bod to long fins. We should have done the pairs separately but were thinking any pairing between the four involed would be ok. Wouldnt do that again but hey, we have to start somewhere.

Gary, Thank you for the advise. So NONE of the pinks will turn out to be anything? Maybe pet store fodder? lol

[BruceP]

Lari asked why the pink with black eggs? What can we tell by this that they should be culled?

[SeaWitch]

I think you guys did great! Your adults are amazing! My personal favorites are the first female (for finnage and color) and the last male. I wish you guys luck with these fry and hope you get some prize-worthy ones out of them! BTW, I would take a cull off your hands! IMO, any of your culls would still look beautiful in a tank!

[bigbettadan]

If you want tails like your bronze fish, select for tails with minimal forking and look "squared" off from the top. Of course do this after doing all the culling Gary recomended.........

Dan

[Guenther]

Lari asked why the pink with black eggs? What can we tell by this that they should be culled?

It's up to you to cull the pinkies... here are two pinkies a little bit older. Some of my shubunkin pinkies developed a lot of blue - I liked them

http://www.goldfishkeepers.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=9&pictureid=102

http://www.goldfishkeepers.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=9&pictureid=103

[BruceP]

I separated the pinkies from the others this morning. Those little crappers are really fast... lol I now have them split into 2- 55g aquariums and will start going thru them again soon being more picky as to what to keep. I am appreciative of you all taking the time to teach.

[BruceP]

Is eye color something to consider when culling? Some have eyes like the pix of the parent stock and some have the black dot for eyes like the ones in Guenther's pix. I have one adult ranchu that has one of each.... what's with that? lol
Thanx

[bekko]

It is called "button eye" when there is not reflective guanine in the iris. It does not affect vision. Nacreous (calico) fish have patches of guanine scattered across the body so there may, or may not, be reflective pigments in the iris. Having one button eye and one reflective eye is not uncommon.

-steve

[bekko]

.... and, some people do not like button eyes because a fish with button eyes seems to have less expression in its face. Others do not care. Some people think that the two eyes should match because the fish will have a very different appearance on the two opposite sides. For others, it's like getting two fish for the price of one. Your call.

-steve

[BruceP]

I am seeing a what I would consider a high incedence of gill plate curl and short plate. Is this a result of something that we are doing or is it gene related? Kind of a shame when you see a really nice fish and then see that it has a short gill plate. :(

[johnatoranchu]

I am seeing a what I would consider a high incedence of gill plate curl and short plate. Is this a result of something that we are doing or is it gene related? Kind of a shame when you see a really nice fish and then see that it has a short gill plate. :(

These are serious faults and given that there is a high incidence of this fault in a relatively small spawn I would suggest that you cull all fish that have short gill plates and certainly all those which have curled gill plates, including those with just a slight curl. Don't pass them on to pet stores unless they go as feeders.
John

[BruceP]

Thanx for the reply. Would this be strickly genetics or 'keeping' that would cause a high incedence of this fault?

[BruceP]

Here is a new video I took this morning, Dec. 31, 09.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/23tbucket/Ryukin%20Fry/th_RyukinFry123109.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v239/23tbucket/Ryukin%20Fry/?action=view&current=RyukinFry123109.flv)

[afertuna]

Great fry Bruce I would definantly remember who you spawned so you can see which of the fish are passing the curled gills then take it out of the breeding program.Have you bred these fish before and did you get the same results?

..I just handspwned my ryukins metallic tri colors and a calico male,uncolored and metallic white male.Unfortionantly I have no tri colored males they all turned out to be females.So this will be intereating mixes. I forgot how beautifull a nice Ryukin is untill i went ahead and worked with them today.Its funny I have 5 batches of eggs and 3 tanks of fry right now and all I hear when I walk by them and look in them John saying cull cull cull..LOL!>:)

Soon I will start culling as soon as I can get a better look at the fish. My Tilpia Butterfuki will soon be well fed

[BruceP]

Havent updated this thread for about a month and wanted to show you my new culling basket. It's a collapsable laundry basket that springs open that I found at Walmart over the weekend. I have it attached to the side of our 700g tank that has about 10 adult fish in it. Makes it quite convenient to sit on the bar stool and cull.
I went thru all the November1, 09 Ryukin again this morning. Still kept about a hundred but that # will come down alot over the next month or two.
I found NO single anal finned fish which I thought was really good and once I got into it the curled gil plates werent as bad as I originally thought. Crooked backs and caudal fin issues were what I found the most of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnh94Xpk6Ws