Has anyone successfully treated Hole In The Head in Ranchu?

[judge]

I am wondering if anyone has successfully treated hole in the head disease in Ranchu. If so could you post the medication and treatment procedure that works for your fish.

Thanks in advance.

[bekko]

I think that most cases called hole-in-the-head in goldfish are not caused by Hexamita but more common and ubiquitous ulcer-forming bacteria like Aeromonas and Flavobacterium. A one-time topical treatment with potassium permanganate followed by several weeks of food laced with 1% metronidazole seems to work pretty well if the fish is not already too far gone.

-steve

[judge]

Thanks Steve. I have already lost one to that disease. From the beginning I have been treating the fish with Metronidazole or Metro+. I added Mercyn2 at the same time. After 10 days the area was not red and not getting big any more.

I put the fish back into the main tank. After 2 days I can see its red and the area is bigger and deeper. Now I put the fish in hosipital tank and treating with Metro+ and Mercyn2. I made medicated dry food with Metro+. and started feeding that as well.

The reason I took the fish out after 10 days is because I did not want the fish to be exposed to the medications for a long period. That might be my mistake.

I think that most cases called hole-in-the-head in goldfish are not caused by Hexamita but more common and ubiquitous ulcer-forming bacteria like Aeromonas and Flavobacterium. A one-time topical treatment with potassium permanganate followed by several weeks of food laced with 1% metronidazole seems to work pretty well if the fish is not already too far gone.

-steve

[George Ludrosky]

I have never had a fish with hole in the head but have treated some ulcers with formalyn. I know formalyn is supposed to be for paracites but it seems to kill whatever is on the outside of the ulcer and then I feed medicated food to work from the inside. I like teramycin food but it may be difficult to find.But this combination has worked for me without the problem reacurring.

[SeaWitch]

I have successfully treated HITH in orandas with Metro-Meds and Baytril injections. I personally don't like Maracyn products because they are very harsh on some internal organs, IMO. Good luck to you!

[suphi]

Pseudomonas and Aeromonas are typically resistant to most antibiotics. The only things that will work reliably is quinolone drugs (Baytril injection or Oxolinic powder). Check out my Ulcer album in the photo section, you can see progressive improvement of the affected fish.

[judge]

Treatment Start Date: 12/15/2009.
Bath: Metro+ & mercyn2
Feed: Hikari Lionhead prepared with Metro+ according the instruction

Its day 2.

Here is the picture of hole in the head.

http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq42/judge321/DSC06402.jpg

[marlin08]

I think that most cases called hole-in-the-head in goldfish are not caused by Hexamita but more common and ubiquitous ulcer-forming bacteria like Aeromonas and Flavobacterium. A one-time topical treatment with potassium permanganate followed by several weeks of food laced with 1% metronidazole seems to work pretty well if the fish is not already too far gone.

-steve

I tried this, at Steve's suggestion, on an oranda with a stubborn wen ulcer and it worked very well...

[judge]

Treatment Start Date: 12/15/2009.
Bath: Metro+ & mercyn2
Feed: Hikari Lionhead prepared with Metro+ according the instruction

Its day 4.

Washed the hole/ulcer with potassium permanganate Yesterday. Still in Metro+ and Mercyn2 bath with the medicated feed described above.

The redness has gone. I can clearly see the improvement.

http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq42/judge321/DSC06405.jpg

[suphi]

That's definitely an improvement, although I'm not sure I'd call that an ulcer.

[judge]

That's definitely an improvement, although I'm not sure I'd call that an ulcer.

Thanks. Yes I agree its hole in the head. I lost one to that disease last time. I can't loose this one as well.

Its a nasty persistent disease. The only thing I didn't do last time was Mercyn 2 and my own Metro+ feed.

[judge]

Just to give an update after day 10 the fish is well and now back in the main tank with his buddies.

If anyone wants details of how it was treated let me know I will post the details with photos.

[BruceP]

Good to hear of your success. I have an oranda right now that has what looks like the same thing so I would be interested in your procedure. Thanx.

[judge]

Good to hear of your success. I have an oranda right now that has what looks like the same thing so I would be interested in your procedure. Thanx.

Sorry to hear about your Oranda.

I posted the whole procedure day by day in the other local goldfish forum.

You can find details in that forum below.
(Admins I don't mean to direct user to another forum. It will take a bit of time for me to repost. Due to urgency I sending Bruce to that post.)

http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19800

Bruce you can find how to prepare medicated Metro+ fish food here:

http://uskoi.com/med_feed_-_general.htm

Hope it helps.

Let me know if you have any questions.

If you live around Oklahoma city I can spare you some medicated food that I have already prepared.

[mattpadrigan]

i think it is very appropriate to suggest that maybe my ranchu is having this kinda of problem. looking at my tank, i realized that one of them has a white speck on their head (wen area) it kind looked like a little cotton ball that comes off of sweaters.... to get a closer look, i caught it and inspected a bit. i kind of rubbed it and the white speck started to disappear, but what was left was a reddish area.
can someone tell me what might be the problem?

[judge]

Hi Matt,

My fishes too just recently display exact same thing that you are seeing. You do not have to worry. They normally goes away 5 to 7 days... Just keep a watch on your water quality.

Having said that, there are times when the white speck is big and looks like wen is exploded. And the base of the white speck is a bit red. In that case, you got some bacterial infection in the fish. Put the fish in the hospital tank.

Put 1 teaspoon per gallon of rock salt, or aquarium salt. Put meracyn 2 one course which is 5 days... Make sure you keep the water temperature at around 80 F.

This is to prevent the area from being developed into wen rot or ulcer.

Not all white speck turned into hole in the head disease.

Only when the area become wider and deeper with time you will need to worry about hole in the head.


Thanks.

i think it is very appropriate to suggest that maybe my ranchu is having this kinda of problem. looking at my tank, i realized that one of them has a white speck on their head (wen area) it kind looked like a little cotton ball that comes off of sweaters.... to get a closer look, i caught it and inspected a bit. i kind of rubbed it and the white speck started to disappear, but what was left was a reddish area.
can someone tell me what might be the problem?

[mattpadrigan]

thanks alot! i havent noticed the white spot recently so its was probably something that you described about it lasting for a couple of days which i think is the case. thank you.

[Mikey V]

Hey matt, does this white speck look kind of like a pimple?
I have always been told that that's simply wen growth

[judge]

I posted the thread below about treating hole in the head or head ulcer. Regretfully, I would have to say that the treatment did not work on the second time and subsequent times in other fish.

In case if you are also looking for the cure for this disease and happen to found this thread, do not use the treatment method below. It just prolong the life of the fish but does not completely cure them of head ulcer or hole in the head disease...

I am still struggling to find cure for this horrible disease.

Regards,
Judge.




Sorry to hear about your Oranda.

I posted the whole procedure day by day in the other local goldfish forum.

You can find details in that forum below.
(Admins I don't mean to direct user to another forum. It will take a bit of time for me to repost. Due to urgency I sending Bruce to that post.)

http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19800

Bruce you can find how to prepare medicated Metro+ fish food here:

http://uskoi.com/med_feed_-_general.htm

Hope it helps.

Let me know if you have any questions.

If you live around Oklahoma city I can spare you some medicated food that I have already prepared.

[BruceP]

Judge... thanx.... I had the same results. It prolonged the fishes life but in the end it did not cure it. It continued to come back and I think that eventually the fish became too weak to recover, perhaps from all the meds.

[suphi]

Have you tried oxolinic acid bath? That's the, imo, only nonprescription modern antibiotic that has solid action against tough bacteria such as pseudomonas/aeromonas. Well, kanamycin is an alternative but not as good.

Metronidazole is only good against certain Protozoa and anaerobic bacteria.

For superficial/external infection medicated food may not be as effective as bath which provides direct contact between drugs and infected tissue.

[judge]

Thanks Suphi. I have not tried Oxolinic acid yet. Bluebelly suggested to try Furan. I will give it a shot first. I have been trying many different things but none had worked and like you said the fish got weaker over time and then eventually died.

[BruceP]

I have used Bifuran in the past for some success. Not sure if that is the same as furan.

[marlin08]

I second the oxolinic acid, be sure to do it in a separate tank so you don't trash your cycle.
I've also had good luck with spot treatments using a Qtip with PP and then a little neosporin.
Sometimes, no matter what you do, you lose a fish, especially if you have something really virulent come through.

[suphi]

Thanks Suphi. I have not tried Oxolinic acid yet. Bluebelly suggested to try Furan. I will give it a shot first. I have been trying many different things but none had worked and like you said the fish got weaker over time and then eventually died.

Furan has no activity against pseudomonas and several other gram negative bacteria, FYI.

[BruceP]

SUphi....... could you explain, in detail, how you use the oxolinic acid please?

[suphi]

I typically do 24-hr bath for 5 consecutive days with daily WC close to 100% plus redosing the med according to the dosing instructions on the label. It can wipe out most gram positive and negative bacteria. Any visible external wounds should start regressing within 2-3 days--in a typical situation that is.

For chronic ulcer you might be SOL, though. We can't even treat that effectively in humans and most of the time surgical debridement of infected tissue will have to be done. So, timing is very important...treat early and aggressively for best results.

[TheTruth]

in the past mercureocrome worked on fish it stained the wound and healing would start.these wound type diseases are becomming much more serious then in the past.i hope this stuff still works.guys and girls start breeding your goldfish and stop buying imports until the dealers cure this problem

[BruceP]

Suphi..... Are you using oxolinic acid or Oxilium? How much for each 10 gallons if that is how it is mixed?

[marlin08]

Suphi..... Are you using oxolinic acid or Oxilium? How much for each 10 gallons if that is how it is mixed?

Bruce, Oxolium is oxolinic acid. That's what I have, too. You can just follow the directions on the bottle - 1tsp for 25 gallons, for 10g a bit less than 1/2 tsp.
I do it in a separate tank, with lots of aeration (bubbler).
It will kill your beneficial bacteria and trash your cycle from what I've read so definitely do it in a separate tank with 100% daily changes.
I had good luck with it last summer when I had something funky brought in that wasn't responding to anything else. That's all I use now (other than a spot treatment, if needed, with PP).

[BruceP]

THIS is why I asked for details...... Oxilium is NOT full strength oxolinic acid, therefore is dosed differently. Im finding that oxolinic acid most often is used as a 30 minute bath, and recommended NOT be added to the aquarium and to even rinse the fish before returning it to the aquarium as it will do a number on the filters. There is a huge difference in how the two are used.

[marlin08]

Most meds are sold in different strengths.

Safest route would be to follow the directions on the label of whatever strength of oxolinic acid you are using, that's why they are there :letsee:

[bigbettadan]

Where are you guys getting the Oxilium?

Dan

[marlin08]

The Oxolium I have came from Jones Fish Hatchery
http://jonesfish.com/products/603/Oxolium.htm

[TheTruth]

Furan has no activity against pseudomonas and several other gram negative bacteria, FYI.
sadly furan 2 today has been watered down i have cured these problems using furan 2 at twice the doce for twice as long.i also put it directly on the wound if there is one.it is also very expensive.hopfully they come up with better stuff at a cheeper price

[judge]

Does anyone knows the difference between Prefuran and Furan 2?

[suphi]

I also use Oxolium from Jones Fishery, it's just a brand name for oxolinic acid--kind of like Tylenol for acetaminophen. Dosing is 1 gram per 10 G. If you use different brand you may have to dose differently since the amount of actual drug content may be different. So follow the instructions that come with it. It's in the same class as Baytril which is probably the best injectable drug for fish.

I use 3rd or 4th generation quinolone type drugs similar to oxolinic regularly with my patients at work and it's quite safe...gets everything from skin infections to pneumonia. Of course, it will virtually nuke all the bacteria in the tank that's why some people rinse the fish before putting it back in the tank to get rid of antibiotics. But the thing is...if the fish is infected you have to ASSUME that the water is also infected. That's the first principal of treating infectious disease. The fish will likely become reinfected again when you put it back without treating the tank water.

[marlin08]

But the thing is...if the fish is infected you have to ASSUME that the water is also infected. That's the first principal of treating infectious disease. The fish will likely become reinfected again when you put it back without treating the tank water.

That's a good point.
When I've used it in a separate QT, I always do a massive water change in the main tank before the fish goes back in. Luckily, that's done the trick thus far and I haven't yet had to nuke the tank with it and crash the cycle.
That's definitely something to keep in mind for future use if the problem recurs after the fish goes back in.

[Virginia ranchu]

I like John's mercurochrome idea. I think a topical treatment is a better first choice than adding antibiotics to the water. I also like hydrogen peroxide on a cotton swab, or Panalog ointment.

rob