ARS Sept show planning thread

[bigbettadan]

Hey,


Well, now that the shows are for the most part behind us, time to start planning on our upcoming show next Sept. He is what decisions are set so far.........

1. Show will be the Sat of the breeders social, at Garys(Cincy) date tba, but most likely Sept.
2. Gary will be the show chair and handle mail ins.
3. Awards are taken care of, but additional awards can be donated.
4. This will be Japanese style judging, hopefully it works out for John Parker to be lead judge.
5. Classes for tosai, Nisai, and Oya.

What we need to work on:

1. Additional class for experimental ranchu? blues,edos, Lf, etc?

2. Setting the age parameters. I think tosai - 12 months and under, Nisai - 12 to 24 months, Oya - 24 months and up. Some have suggested size based.

3. Show rules- we want as many ranchu as possible, but we also want to reward grooming and breeding skill. How about the fish must be in the possession of the exhibitior min 3 months? Honor system of course?

4. Promotion..... thoughts??

Dan

[Ranchumaniax]

I believe in Japan using Size and age to determine the class of individual fish. This will need some skill and practice to determine. Hope you do not mess up!

I will do my best to participate this Show next year at Gary Place. And bring as many TVR and any Japanese fish that i have in stock. This will depend on my situation with my new baby that due early next year! :yess:

One question about the show site. Could they change the location of the show to Chicago? Because i've talked and invite Mr. Boss coming to the US next year for MPKS.

[bigbettadan]

We are going to stick with Gary's place for the first show, in the future we can have shows in other locations, but with the built in advantages Gary's place in conjuction with the social is the best starting point.........

Dan

[Ranchumaniax]

Who will be the Judge? And how many? Can Vender like me can participate in the show?

[bigbettadan]

The plan is John Parker being Sr Jr judge.......

As far as Venders showing, we are discussing show rules now. Right now I propose the fish must be in possession of the exhibitor a min of 3 months to enter. We want to promote grooming and breeding of US hobbiests..... Plus no buy and show the same day thing that discourages people at AGA shows......

Dan

[bigbettadan]

Oh, other breeders will participate in judging, Japanese style, like the UK Jinchu Kai does.

dan

[Ranchumaniax]

Any info where i can read at?

[bigbettadan]

We are working on that now, thats the point of this thread....>:)

[King_oF_Ranchu]

Do you have English rule on showing them? I want to take a look at their rule.

Buy and then put into the show should not be prohibit. Otherwise, you might end up with only small group of breeder showing their fish. And this will not help with promoting the hobby as state in this Ranchu club's goal.

[bigbettadan]

Obviously we cannot do just self bred fish. But we want grooming skill rewarded to. I am againist fish bought at the show and entered, as most members where at our meeting in Sept. I am proposing a 3 month rule, meaning the fish must be in the possession of the entrant a min of 3 months prior to showing........

Dan

[King_oF_Ranchu]

One question; How do you know if they have it for at least 3 month? There is nothing to prove about these time period ownership. If you can't really prove about the time period of ownership, it will not be fair for someone who want to buy and put them in the show.

[bigbettadan]

It would be a honor system if we go that route.

Dan

[King_oF_Ranchu]

If you planing to make it a wider club, more members, and great show. A proper rule are needed.

[bigbettadan]

I am going to support whatever the majority wants. Personally, I hate the buy and show the same day thing that happens too frequently. I think breeding as well as grooming skill needs to be rewarded, not just the person with the most money. For me the hobby can't grow if all the shows are nothing more than vendor sales.....

Dan

[Bucks Koi]

For me the hobby can't grow if all the shows are nothing more than vendor sales.....

Dan[/QUOTE]

Bull
Then your opinion of this hobby will always be a small group of people.
The fish would have to come from somewere , a breeder in the states or imported or even a local fish store..
You can still sell fish and have you rules in place at each show.
Patrick

[bigbettadan]

Well, the two most successful fish show circuts in the US.... The IBC and the IFGA, have breeder based systems, and the have 1000 fish shows yearly... I am not for a breeder only system for this, but I want to support the little guy who works hard grooming fish to show to be beat by a guy with a lot of money that has not put the time in.

Dan

[bigbettadan]

BTW........ no one has said anything about not being able to sell fish at the show. I am just bringing up what was discussed at the breeders social meeting. Nothing is set in stone. This is why I hate internet discussions vs live meetings. Too many of these threads become personal...

Dan

[afnaveils]

I too think that fish bought at show should not be allowed to compete in that same show.

To put it to an extreme: It's like I buy a ranchu from Gary at the BS and put it in the show and it wins according to the judges present. Who wins, Gary or me or the fish?

[thomasn]

I too think that fish bought at show should not be allowed to compete in that same show.

To put it to an extreme: It's like I buy a ranchu from Gary at the BS and put it in the show and it wins according to the judges present. Who wins, Gary or me or the fish?

IMO, the fish is judged, the fish wins.

For me, trying to reward grooming/breeding skill calls for a different kind of competition, like a grow out competition, or one where a person enters multiple fish to see consistency. It seems like the priority should be given to expanding the show, expanding membership and encouraging participation, rather than trying to solve or avoid a problem that may or may not happen. (The "little guy" can win against big farms without a restrictions or special rules to help him out, see Goldrush's results (http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6471&st=0&p=60603&#entry60603) at aquarama.) As a spectator, I want to see beautiful fish, the more the better, and I want to see the best fish win. I might think differently if I were a competitor.

I like where it was suggested somewhere, I think by Bekko, that breeders/good grooming skill be acknowledged but not the point of the show.

[bigbettadan]

Why can't it be about the fish and the breeder/groomer? They don't need to be exclusive...


Dan

[thomasn]

grooming/breeding is it's own reward.

FYI, I only speak as a someone from the sidelines. I don't think I'll ever make it to ohio or come up with the dough to ship a fish there and back.

[Bucks Koi]

Well, the two most successful fish show circuts in the US.... The IBC and the IFGA, have breeder based systems, and the have 1000 fish shows yearly... I am not for a breeder only system for this, but I want to support the little guy who works hard grooming fish to show to be beat by a guy with a lot of money that has not put the time in.

Dan


Dan
Sorry for late reply had to shop at walmart today.
I'm still the little guy NO MONEY.
I know how you feel, I felt the same way when I used to show koi.
But I got over it after I got to know some of the other members that had money.
I never had the bucks to get the big show fish but I did have some for the other sizes.
One thing I can tell you is that big money people never purchased their chanpions at the vender part of the show.
They sometimes purchased koi years in advance but had great ponds to grow them in.
I guess you can call that grooming.
So I guess I'm just trying to say don't take it out on the rich man .
They also have a love for goldfish and the hobby.

Dan
I have one other question ?
Do you also want the redistribution of wealth !
Just Kidding
Remember they are just fish.
My family comes first.
Peace
Patrick

[King_oF_Ranchu]

I thought that i am your priority >:)

Anyways, i would suggest to open a wide window as a start.
Then reducing it as the participation has grow bigger.
Otherwise, you might end up only see those old faces.

[bigbettadan]

Anyway.........


I do think maybe for this show, we should go this route for classes:

1. small tosai - under 3 inches
2. large tosai - 3 to 5 inches
3. Nisai/Oya - 5 inches and up

I am thinking this route due to most of what is being work with now here by our members is young fish, thoughts?

Dan

[bigbettadan]

bump..........


Dan