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Tummy ache or should I be doing something?

Discussion in 'New Members' Area' started by Boo1103, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. Boo1103

    Boo1103 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2017
    Location:
    Denver
    I have a fish in quarantine that is looking lethargic, somewhat bloated and hanging out on the bottom of the tank. This is his 3rd week in the tank - details/chemistry below - and up until yesterday he has been bright, alert and responsive, begging for food and growing like an adolescent boy. I've been feeding mostly gel food (recipe shrimp and green veggie based with Omega One pellets) and leaving small amounts of shredded blanched lettuce and peas for munching on between small (3x daily) meals. All of this is removed daily.
    The day before he started looking bad, I made a mistake feeding him. I used pieces of gel food that had dehydrated a bit, so they were gummier than normal. I fed him same amount as I had been, but this would have been denser and gummier.
    Is that enough to explain his behavior? Should I just allow him to fast until he's up and around again? At what point should I do anything other than water changes and fasting?
    His bloating is less today after pooping some very solid stuff. At no point has the bloating been enough to raise scales. His color has improved, but his fins look more clamped today and has less energy.
    Three weeks ago, when I first got him, he started showing signs of ich. I treated with .3% salt. Spots dissapeared and up until this he has remained active and wanting to interact with everyone (mostly to convince them he's starving!) and has grown about 1/2 an inch in length and has gained body depth also.
    He was still flashing/itching mostly his wen against the corners of the tank, so I did 4 days with General Cure (Prazi and Metro/Flagyl). That seemed to stop the itchiness. It was only a day after stopping treatment that the listlessness started. I know, haven taken Metro myself, that it can wipe out your digestive BB and leave your intestinal flora really messed up. Could this be part of it?
    Ideas? Suggestions?


    4 gallon quarantine tank, food grade plastic, with sponge filter, daily 80pwc, Prime in excess to help with the nitrites/am,
    What is Ammonia Level? 0.25 - 1.0 ppm (again, daily water changes and Seachem Prime)
    What is Nitrite Level? 0
    What is Nitrate level? 0
    What is Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH)? pH 7.4 (Denver water is hard and highly buffered, don't know exact numbers)
    What is the brand of test-kit used(strips or drops)? API Master Kit
    What is your water temperature? 78 F, unheated
    What is the size of the tank (how many gals.) and how long has it been set up? 4+ gallon quarantine tank, 3 weeks
    What is the name and size of the filter(s)? small sponge filter
    Is there any substrate in the tank? If so how deep? and what kind (sand, gravel)? none
    How often do you change the water and how much? 80 % daily, more if tank needs it
    How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 new 3.5-4 inch oranda
    Do you use water conditioner(if so, what kind)? Seachem Prime
    What do you feed your fish and how often? gel food, blanched lettuce, peas and/or Omega One sinking pellets (presoaked)
    Is there any new fish/plant added to the tank? if so how long is the quarantine period? This is the quaratine tank, 3 weeks
    Is there any medications added to the tank? Currently 0.3% Salt, Just finished 4 days of General Cure (Prazi, Metro/Flagyl combo) 24 hours after last day of these meds fish began to get lethargic

    Describe the problems you are seeing: example grains of salt on body, bloddy streaks, frayed fins, fungus, staying at bottom, not eating, etc?
    Staying at bottom, some clamping of fins, dorsal is still vertical and he still responds to me being near tank by getting up and coming over to that corner and laying down again. Not interested in food. His color is good today, yesterday he was faded. Yesterday he looked alittle bloated, now his abdomen looks more normal. He is not listing in any direction when he does get up and move. He doesn't seem to have any problems regulating his height in the water column. His silver areas have started looking a bit yellow. I was assuming that was from the spirulina and other color enhancers in the food color enhancing where he didn't need it. He seems lethargic rather than sick.
    So is this just a Tummy Ache from the gummy food, or is this something I should be doing something about?
    Thank you all
     
  2. shakaho

    shakaho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Location:
    Orlando FL
    Is the fish pooping? If not, he probably does have a digestive issue. A completely natural way to clear the gut is to feed duckweed. You should soon see lots of green poop. Duckweed is also a very nutritious complement to commercial food. You can also make use of the laxative effect of epsom salt (MgSO4). Make a 3% solution, and drip it on the dry pellets until they won't hold more liquid. Then feed to the fish. Continue for a week.

    I'm concerned about short treatments. An itchy fish should receive a full two weeks of prazi treatment. I recommend you either continue the General Cure for a total of two weeks or get prazi and treat with that for two weeks. I have never heard of any digestive issues from metro treatments for goldfish, even when feeding medicated food.

    Please get a quarantine container that holds at least 10 gallons, preferably a shallow container with lots of swimming space like this. You would get pretty lethargic locked in a 6'x10' cell which would give you about the same exercise space as your fish has. From my observations, the more horizontal swimming space a fish has, the more it swims.
     
  3. orangecrush

    orangecrush Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Location:
    Loma Linda, CA 92354
    If you can't track down any Duckweed in a hurry, you can always use blanched spinach. It goes right through my fish and because of it's dark green color, I can tell when it's done its job.

    Good luck, Jim.
     
  4. Boo1103

    Boo1103 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2017
    Location:
    Denver
    Thank you for your helpful responses. He is looking somewhat better today, at least eating a little, but still not back to his healthy self. And no, no poop, so I’ll assume it’s a digestive matter for now.

    Shakaho, I do still have a couple of questions, if you don’t mind:

    1) I was using the 3 weeks of .3 -.4% salt solution as an ick cure and added the General Cure as an answer to possible flukes. I don’t have a microscope handy, so doing a scrape and seeing exactly what parasite is still around isn’t possible. So….. are you suggesting that the 3wks @ .3% salt is not capable of getting rid of ich (I know it doesn’t bother the flukes)? Or that the 4 days of General Cure isn’t long enough to kill all the flukes? Or….? If you could please comment.

    2) Duckweed….I know it’s good for them, but how do you keep it from overtaking a tank or more importantly, hiding in all the tank’s nooks and crannies, browning/dying and then adding to the ammonia load on the tank? ( I’m an apartment dweller with limits on tanks)

    The bigger Qtank I can do today. Thanks for pointing it out.

    Spinach, yeah, I've noticed that result as well...hmmm
     
  5. shakaho

    shakaho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Location:
    Orlando FL
    Do you have any ich currently? If not, what you did worked. When using salt for ich it's a good idea to continue the treatment for 10 days to 2 weeks after the last spot disappears.

    If a fish shows symptoms of flukes, I would treat with prazi for at least two weeks. Four weeks might be better.

    Duckweed cannot take over a goldfish tank unless you have nothing in it but tiny fry. One goldfish large enough to swallow duckweed will clean it up. You need a separate tub to maintain duckweed, and you can feed it used tank water. I don't filter a quarantine tank so I don't have to keep the duckweed out of the filter, but there are tricks for doing that.
     
  6. Boo1103

    Boo1103 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2017
    Location:
    Denver
    Thank you everyone for the advice and support, my little fish is doing soooooo much better after getting some greens into him and finally pooping out the gummy gel food jerky. He is up and swimming, still not eating much and still looking as though we have some flukes to deal with, but so much stronger now. I'm not worried about treating him. Thank you
     
  7. orangecrush

    orangecrush Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Location:
    Loma Linda, CA 92354
    That's so good to hear. Please keep us posted on his recovery.

    Good luck and happy fishkeeping, Jim.
     

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